HANSARD
NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
COMMITTEE
ON
VETERANS AFFAIRS
Tuesday, December 17, 2019
Legislative Committees Office
Air Cadet League of Canada - Overview
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
VETERANS AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
Rafah DiCostanzo (Chair)
Ben Jessome (Vice-Chair)
Brendan Maguire
Bill Horne
Hugh MacKay
Kim Masland
Murray Ryan
Lisa Roberts
Tammy Martin
[Brendan Maguire was replaced by Hon. Iain Rankin.]
In Attendance:
Darlene Henry
Legislative Committee Clerk
Gordon Hebb
Chief Legislative Counsel
WITNESSES
Air Cadet League of Canada
Bruce Morse - Chairman
Elaina Gaetan - 1st Vice Chair
Katie Clyburne (Flight Sergeant) - Air Cadet
HALIFAX, TUESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2019
STANDING COMMITTEE ON VETERANS AFFAIRS
2:00 P.M.
CHAIR
Rafah DiCostanzo
THE CHAIR: Good afternoon, everyone. I call the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs meeting to order right now.
I’d like to introduce the presenters: Mr. Bruce Morse, Chairman of the Air Cadet League of Canada, Nova Scotia Provincial Committee; and we also have with us today Elaina Gaetan, and Katie Clyburne as well, who is a flight sergeant. Very interesting. Thank you for coming.
I need to make sure that everybody has their cellphone on vibrate or off, if you could make sure of that. Also, the washrooms and coffee are in the room next door. If there’s any emergency, we will leave and meet at the Granville Street entrance and proceed to the Grand Parade from there.
I’d also like to remind the witnesses, when you speak, please wait for the microphone, and I will call your name so that it will be registered in Hansard.
I guess we will start by introducing ourselves.
[The committee members and witnesses introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: We can start with your presentation, and then we’ll go on to the questions after that.
BRUCE MORSE: On behalf of the three, we appreciate your invitation to be with you here today. We’re going to speak with reference to the Air Cadet League of Canada and its involvement with our youth.
As we move from screen to screen, I’m going to speak to the slides because on each slide there may be something that I’d like to point out to you just as cadet reference. For example, on that first slide, the picture in the top left-hand corner is me presenting a music award to a senior cadet of one of our Halifax squadrons.
About us - the Air Cadet League of Canada is a national youth program for young Canadians aged 12 to 18. We are in partnership with the Department of National Defence and the Air Cadet League of Canada. The sea, land, and army cadets form the largest federally-funded youth program in the country. Cadets are not members of the military and are not obliged to join the Canadian Forces. However, should they wish to upon graduation, we assure you that as an employer, the Canadian Armed Forces is very proud to hear from them, realizing their experience.
The aims of the Air Cadet League of Canada are to develop in youth the attributes of good citizenship and leadership, promote physical fitness, and stimulate the interest of youth in aviation. You can see from this slide, in the top photo to the left, the Lieutenant Governor of Nova Scotia is presenting the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award to a deserving cadet in one of our Halifax squadrons.
The history of the Air Cadet League of Canada: July to October 1940, during the Battle of Britain, it drove the need for more aircraft and trained pilots. Air Minister Power recognizes the need to set up a national volunteer organization to sponsor training of a select corps of teenage youth in preparation to join the Royal Canadian Air Force. On November 11, 1940, there was an Order in Council authorizing the formation of the Air Cadet League of Canada. In April 1941, the Air Cadet League of Canada was chartered.
The next slide basically deals with the organizational chart of the Royal Canadian Air Cadets. We have the Air Cadet League of Canada offices in Ottawa comprised of a board of governors; an executive committee consisting of a president, immediate past president, three vice-presidents, and an executive director; along with an advisory council and various committees.
That filters down to the provincial committees, of which I represent. We have our provincial executive, area directors, squadron directors, and regional directors. Lastly, what we refer to as squadron sponsoring committees, as each squadron has its own sponsor and each squadron is responsible - through the league - to have in place a squadron sponsoring committee.
The air cadet program of today: there are approximately 27,000 air cadets in Canada, of which there are 3,500 in Nova Scotia. They are part of 450 cadet squadrons in Canada of which we currently have 29 in Nova Scotia. Our challenges for our people at our squadron level today are mainly the search for volunteers. We never seem to have enough people to be there at the squadron level to help as volunteers, so a pitch to all of you folks today: if you know anyone who’s interested, past military or past air cadets, anyone you think might be interested, we have our website that we will show you at the end of the presentation.
Also, we’re attempting to generate revenue to fund various aspects of the program and mainly our tow aircraft replacements. Currently, in Nova Scotia, we have five aircraft for flight flying. These are power, not glider, and Nova Scotia owns three of them. Periodically those aircraft have to be replaced, so this is where I’m making the reference to trying to speak to people to generate not only the interest, but also possible support.
Within the air cadet program, we deliver manual weekly training at each squadron - usually one night, sometimes two nights - and there are Levels 1 to 5, meaning a new recruit would come in at Level 1, and usually upon graduation, senior cadets have attained Level 5.
The areas of training are either at the squadron level, the Cadet Training Centre, regional level, or national level. Summer advanced training includes power and glider pilot scholarships; the International Air Cadet Exchange; basic and advanced aviation; music - basic and advanced, along with pipe band; basic survival, survival instructor; basic drill and ceremonial; and basic fitness and sports.
Air cadets have the opportunity on an annual basis to apply for scholarships. These applications are obtained through the squadron commanding officer, completed and submitted to national for approval. In 2019, we have the Birchall Scholarship that will be presented at $9,000; the Dale Scholarship for $5,000; and then the Young Citizens Foundation for $5,000.
Many air cadet squadrons today are sponsored by Legions, so this creates the opportunity for cadets to have the opportunity to speak to veterans. Many veterans take part in our weekly sessions as part of squadron-sponsoring bodies. They visit the units. They are asked sometimes to make presentations on behalf of the sponsor. They are asked sometimes to speak of what goes on at the Legion level and it somewhat gives them, in our minds, a feeling of importance of their presence, because so many of us would not be sure where things are today if it weren’t for the efforts of our veterans.
Now the squadrons are sponsored by the Legions; therefore, they have the opportunity to visit us. They have the opportunity to be part of our annual ceremonial reviews which is the end of the year for an Air Cadet Squadron whereby presentations are made, parents and grandparents arrive to see the performance of their squadron, and also many of them, if possible, are asked to be the reviewing officer.
I want you to know there’s nothing more pleasing than to see a veteran asked to be a reviewing officer; the cadets really do appreciate that. I just feel that we do what we can within the Air Cadet League to make sure that our veterans are recognized and that we give them the opportunity to be there with our cadets. We’re there for them on Remembrance Day. We’re there for them, assisting in the laying of wreaths, helping with their banquets, serving at their banquets, and doing everything that we possibly can to keep the image of our veterans in the minds of our young people.
[2:15 p.m.]
So many of you will agree with me now that our young people of today - in my case, my dad was a veteran of World War II, and I can remember some talks when he took a moment to talk to me about the war years, but our young people of today don’t have that. It’s the sight of these veterans, their medals and messages that they bring, that keeps the veterans in front of their minds. We at the league are very pleased to have the opportunity to have that association.
This basically brings us to the end of our discussion. In closing, I just want to say that the Air Cadet League of Canada actually recognizes youth 12 to 18, and we are very proud of what we’re able to do with those young people - not only us at league level, but also what they’re able to do at the squadron level through their training programs. We seem to do everything in our means to allow them to be as we refer to them today: our youth of today are our leaders of tomorrow.
On behalf of Elaina and Katie, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your invitation. We can be contacted at the two websites: the top website is the national website; the bottom website is the provincial website. Please take the time to go to those websites and learn more about our programs. On behalf of all of us, I would like to say Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to each of you. Thank you.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Morse. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all as well. We’ll start questioning with the PC Party, then the NDP, and then to the Liberal Party - one question and a follow-up, if you don’t mind. Mr. Morse will answer, then the light will come on automatically, but if there is somebody else, if you could indicate who would like to answer that, the light will come on their mike. I believe yours is the last one, but I saw it lit up the one before. Hopefully they’ll light up the right one, the next one.
We can start with Ms. Masland.
KIM MASLAND: Thank you again for coming. It’s nice to see you again, Bruce. We see each other at 545 in Liverpool every now and again. I really appreciate you mentioning about the interaction and the participation of the cadets during Remembrance Day, because since being elected, I actually have witnessed that interaction and think it’s wonderful to see the veterans interacting with the cadets. I think the cadets feel it’s pretty wonderful to interact with the veterans too.
You mentioned that there is difficulty in recruiting people from the community to volunteer. I have heard that from our leader Katherine Gayton in Liverpool, who is an amazing squadron leader at 545. Can you explain to us some of the roles that community volunteers would have at the squadron?
BRUCE MORSE: Thank you for your question. With reference to volunteers at the squadron level, firstly, they would be required to be screened, which allows them to be amongst cadets. We have our volunteers who sometimes will assist with classroom lectures.
We have volunteers who will go on trips with us, because they have to be screened in order to be amongst the cadets. We require volunteers for things because there aren’t enough uniformed officers; when we go away on a Saturday morning and come back on Sunday afternoon for overnight trips to Gagetown, Shearwater, wherever, volunteers are necessary. Also, in some of our sports events, for example the Aurora Cup that we hold at 14 Wing Greenwood every year is a weekend event, and when we travel with 40 or 50 cadets from a squadron, we need both uniformed and volunteers.
KIM MASLAND: You mentioned the screening process a couple times. What exactly is the screening process that a volunteer would have to go through?
BRUCE MORSE: I’m going to ask Elaina to speak on that. At the Nova Scotia provincial level, Elaina is not only first chair, she’s also our provincial screening coordinator.
ELAINA GAETAN: There’s a formalized process that’s involved that includes an application package. There would be an application form, a series of reference checks, an interview would be done with the volunteer, and they would also have to have a criminal record check and possibly a vulnerable sector check if they’re going to be in the care and control of the young people.
THE CHAIR: We will move on to the NDP. Ms. Roberts.
LISA ROBERTS: Just to help me understand the full picture, if both of the other witnesses - Ms. Gaetan and Ms. Clyburne - could speak generally to their own experience. How you came to be involved in cadets, and most significantly, why it’s been important in your lives.
ELAINA GAETAN: You’re going to make me say what year I joined, aren’t you? (Laughter) You’re going to get to it.
I joined in 1979 because my brother joined the cadet program. He was very interested in aviation and I was just following what my brother did. Interestingly enough, he quit before I did, so I really went through the entire program. Although I wasn’t interested in aviation in particular - I did not get my gliding licence, I did not get my power licence - I did take advantage of the leadership opportunities.
I did some senior courses related to leadership and took on ever-increasing roles within the squadron and became the first female squadron commander in my squadron. Eventually, probably the apex of my cadet career was participating in the International Air Cadet Exchange program where I travelled to Sweden for a few weeks in the summer of 1985.
KATIE CLYBURNE: I became involved with the air cadets after I stopped competitive swimming two years ago. I wish I’d started it earlier because I did join at age 15, but through my experiences at cadets, I immediately took to the program, and I worked as hard as I could. By the end of my first year, I ended up getting my rank and level accelerated, so I was bumped up with my peers instead of the Level 1s that I should have been put down with.
Then at the end of that first year, I worked very hard for my aviation assessments, and at the end of that first year, I was accepted into the advanced aviation course at Greenwood. During that summer, I learned as much as I could about aviation, and I came back to my squadron last year. Then I immediately became involved with biathlon; through biathlon, I placed first in my zone, and then I staffed provincial biathlon last year in P.E.I.
After that, I applied for the glider scholarship, but due to numbers, I was not accepted this year, but I will be applying this year. Last summer I did complete the six-week advanced Survival Instructor Course at Greenwood, and there I developed my leadership techniques and was able to lead a younger flight of the first-year cadets.
In my squadron, I am in charge of the Level 4s, so I mentor them and provide leadership. I’m also a flight commander in my squadron, so I have a large parade position and I’m in charge of about half of the junior cadets, so they can come to me whenever they want. The cadet experience has furthered my leadership skills and my aviation knowledge and survival.
LISA ROBERTS: What I’m really hearing is that it’s an organization and a structure that allows people to develop themselves, and I can certainly see a great deal of value in that.
I attended a change-of-command ceremony at the Armouries on the Halifax Common, and I’m sure you would know the individual involved. Captain Nicholas Foran had been involved with cadets since he was 14 and I think he was giving up command of that squadron in his early 30s. It was quite a remarkable story and it gave me a real appreciation for that.
Ms. Gaetan, if you could speak to me from where Ms. Clyburne is now: How is it that people manage to stay involved from youth into young adulthood and actually continue to provide leadership? Is that an avenue for addressing the challenge that Mr. Morse spoke about: the challenge in finding volunteers? Can cadets be growing their own volunteers, I guess?
ELAINA GAETAN: Yes, a lot of former cadets when they age out can’t seem to leave. It really gets in your blood and a lot will continue on to become instructor officers through the Reserve Canadian Forces program.
I personally didn’t do that. I think I was so emotionally invested in the program, I needed a bit of a break and giving opportunity for some other people to get the benefits of the program, but it never left my heart. I was a little late coming to the table, but eventually I decided to get involved with the League more so than becoming a CIC officer myself.
Again, a lot of people will leave the program and age out but continue on either as a CIC officer, a volunteer of some sort, or get involved with the League.
BRUCE MORSE: If I may, I’m a former air cadet. I aged out, but I attained the rank of Warrant Officer First Class, then I went to the League and was a member for 10 years. Then I went CIC, at which time I attained the rank of Captain, and then I decided it was time to go back to the League - because, as you were asking: where do we go beyond this point in our life? With the CIC, you age out, and I felt I wasn’t ready to just give up everything that I had wanted and learned and believed in. To be with youth still, I went back to the League and I’m now in my 18th year with the League.
With volunteers, we find that some people appreciate the opportunity but don’t realize the commitment. It is a commitment. It’s not one night a week like we were told many years ago to lull us into the system and then once we’re in uniform, it’s countless hours and countless days. I assure you that it’s very worthwhile.
When I was CO, I always measured the results of my efforts from a training period that started in September and ended in June, because a prime example is with us today. The opportunities are there. The courses are there. They just need to show the motivation and the results, so it’s nice.
Many of us, probably some in this room, are former air cadets. Many of our pilots of today are former air cadets. It’s a wonderful program that people can speak very highly of.
[2:30 p.m.]
THE CHAIR: We will move on to the Liberal Party - Hugh MacKay.
HUGH MACKAY: Welcome. First, I’d like to thank you for the work you do with our youth and with the Air Cadet League. It is a significant amount of time and yes, it is something that one becomes emotionally attached to. I know this because I was chair of a sponsoring committee for 211 Air Cadet Squadron in Ottawa for many years and very involved with that squadron. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience.
Flight Sergeant, I’d just like to compliment you because when I initially heard that you joined two years ago, I thought to myself, she’s a sergeant already, a flight sergeant - wow. You’ve had very rapid success, so I congratulate you on that.
I’d like to get perhaps a response from the flight sergeant but also from either Mr. Morse or Ms. Gaetan. You talked about good citizenship and leadership, and I’m wondering if you could just speak to us about how you advance those goals within the Air Cadet League. Maybe we could start with Mr. Morse or Ms. Gaetan.
BRUCE MORSE: Actually, a lot of that is through the training syllabus and what is available at the squadron levels. Each cadet will, as I mentioned earlier, go through Levels 1 to 5. Most of our squadrons today are staffed, and even equipped, to provide them all of the course material laid out by national.
There hardly is a time when a cadet of today isn’t able to attain what our flight sergeant has if they have the desire and realize that it’s going to take some time and effort to get to where they want to be. We never say no to any of the cadets when they want to apply for courses. Some summer courses have restrictions due to numbers, but most of our cadets get to attain presence at training camps. There’s also the opportunity to fly - familiarity flying - at least once or twice a year.
The opportunities are there. There aren’t a whole lot of areas where there isn’t a chance to proceed within the organization.
ELAINA GAETAN: In regard to citizenship, a lot of the opportunities for boots on the ground work in the community is done probably at the squadron level, so although some of the mandatory training nationally is covering citizenship topics, a lot of the activities are decided at the local or squadron level because they’re based in the community.
The officers and staff and volunteers and squadron sponsoring committees would sort of have their finger on the pulse of the community to see what needs to be done. It could be things like serving veterans at the Legion their Remembrance Day dinner. Last night, I attended a squadron Christmas dinner where all of the cadets brought in a gift for young people who were housed through the HomeBridge Youth Society. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that; it’s a series of group homes for young people.
Interestingly, the representative from HomeBridge was saying that they get gifts from many other community organizations, but the gifts they receive from the cadets seem to be the most welcome gifts because they’re young people choosing gifts for other young people.
There are all kinds of opportunities at the community level, the squadron level, to go out and be creative with community activities that are citizenship focused.
KATIE CLYBURNE: As has already been said, it is driven through both our training programs and the squadron level officers and CIC, but the training is structured so that Levels 1 and 2 - the first two years of cadets - are given the introduction to the program and they’re given many opportunities to volunteer in the community, whether it be the squadron Remembrance Day services at your local Legion or visiting an Ad Astra Lodge. Just this past November, I know the junior cadets who had a PD day volunteered at a food bank with my squadron.
Then you proceed into Levels 3, 4, and 5, and you develop more leadership. You develop teaching techniques. Then by the time you reach Level 4 or 5, you’re teaching classes within your squadron, so you’re bringing forward the knowledge that you’ve already attained to the younger cadets.
Opportunities, at least in my squadron, for senior cadets include speaking at Remembrance Day ceremonies, and you can attend the Cadet Days. I know last year, another cadet from my squadron and I went to our squadron’s sponsor Legion - the Fairview Legion - and gave a presentation to that Legion. I’ve also given presentations to the Ad Astra Lodge.
The leadership really starts within your squadron, and then your leadership through both the senior and junior cadets is brought forward through community service to the community.
HUGH MACKAY: Thank you very much. The public speaking reminded me that I recall a cadet from our 211 squadron who won the Ottawa regional public speaking competition, and I had the opportunity to take them to St-Jean in Quebec for whatever was that next level up from the regional. It just blew me away how well those cadets could speak. Some of them stood up there and gave presentations in both official languages that I would hold up against people who have been through Toastmasters programs and so forth. They did a wonderful job.
You mentioned some figures of 27,000 air cadets across Canada; 3,500 in Nova Scotia. I think we’re punching above our weight, aren’t we, in the numbers? Nova Scotia seems to be very well represented, which we also see reflected perhaps even more so in the Armed Forces themselves - and we have a high proportion of Maritimers and Nova Scotians certainly.
Mr. Morse, could you speak to how the air cadet program - as well as sea cadets and army cadets - perhaps transition better into the Armed Forces with the background training that they have?
BRUCE MORSE: With reference to sea, land, and air cadets who usually at age 18 have reached all levels - 1 to 5 - they are at an age academically, physically, and mentally to move on in their lives. The Canadian Armed Forces really appreciates the fact that they’ve had the background mainly in the areas of drill, discipline, how to handle themselves in certain situations, and the general overall way in which they present themselves, rather than someone off the streets who is a high school graduate and starting out mainly with not a lot of that to offer. All three elements - sea, land, and air - pretty much provide the same training syllabus and prepare our young people of today for that opportunity.
As I said in the presentation, we’re not here to prepare them for the Canadian Armed Forces, but I assure you the recruiting officers appreciate it when they come through the door and indicate that they’ve been a former air cadet or sea cadet or army cadet.
THE CHAIR: We will move back to the PC Party. Mr. Ryan.
MURRAY RYAN: As a fellow son of a veteran of WWII, some of my earliest memories go back to my father taking out his old naval beret and going marching in the Remembrance Day parades. I grew up being exposed to, and developing a high respect for, our veterans and the sacrifices they made in WWII, from my specific experience, but in all engagements that they’ve been involved in.
This past Remembrance Day, I was really struck by the bond between veterans and our air cadets, and the respect went both ways: from our air cadets to the veterans, who are so deserving of such respect, and from the veterans towards the air cadets and the leadership role they’ve taken and have taken through the years. I will date myself - in the 1970s when a lot of my friends were joining air cadets, I refused to get a haircut, so I watched them going off on Thursday nights to the junior high and having their meetings and I’d say, good for you, or what have you.
What struck me in your presentation - thank you very much for your presentation - 3,500 air cadets in the province out of 27,000 is about 13 per cent. In Nova Scotia, we have about 3 per cent of the national population. You speak to the challenge in getting volunteers here in the province. I’m wondering, is that challenge, or that shortage of volunteers, impacting on new enrolment in air cadets?
Also, the other side of it is back in the 1970s and 1980s, there weren’t as many other choices for our young people to get engaged with and engaged in. I’m wondering if those are putting additional stresses on the system as far as new recruits.
BRUCE MORSE: I recall as a squadron commanding officer, I said to many of my new cadets when I met with them and their parents for the first time, I would say to them up front: cadets isn’t for everyone. Why I said that is the fact that today our young people are involved in so many other things, between soccer, ringette, hockey, school activities. But for those young people of today who have a friend who is a cadet - any element - it’s usually your friend that will bring you to your outing. If you’re comfortable with what your friend is achieving, then you set your own goal to say okay, I want to achieve that.
I feel today that of the 29 squadrons in Nova Scotia, we have some that are over 100 cadets in a squadron. Our average is probably 30 to 40, but we’re still growing. We’re growing because of the community involvement, the presence at that Remembrance Day service. I live in Berwick in the Annapolis Valley, and I go to services where there are over 900 people because we deal with 14 Wing Greenwood. Those young people who have teenage sons and daughters see us in league uniform, or the cadets in uniform, and the first thing they want to know is: How can I be one of them?
Visibility not only at the league level, but at the cadet level, is very important today. This is a strong presence, and it will be the presence that will help us continue our growth. Volunteers will come when we reach out, as we are, more and more to the retired military, RCMP, people who have had sons or daughters in cadets and feel now that they have the time to give to this great program.
THE CHAIR: We’ll move on to the NDP. Ms. Roberts.
LISA ROBERTS: 14 Wing Greenwood has come up quite a few times in references. Having grown up in Newfoundland, I was certainly always aware of cadets going from my hometown to both Greenwood and Gagetown. I don’t have a frame on what the present-day situation looks like in comparison to the past or in comparison to what’s projected in the future, but can you speak a little bit to how confident you feel that resource and that base for your summer activities is? How confident are you that things in the future will be there for cadets to continue to rely on that place for summer training and otherwise?
[2:45 p.m.]
BRUCE MORSE: 14 Wing Greenwood is a very large military base, as I’m sure you know, and it houses one of the largest cadet training centres in Canada. Approximately 1,200 cadets go through 14 Wing Greenwood in the summer and they offer many courses, of which I’m sure our Flight Sergeant and many cadets have attended. It’s a very well-run organization. I had the opportunity this year to attend all four graduations. Elaina was with me at their last one, and there were probably 500 or 600 cadets at their final graduation ceremony.
I was also invited to their mess dinner, and I was invited to every opportunity that we had to meet with the base commanders, and believe me, 14 Wing Greenwood gets behind the summer program. The whole base is involved and the whole base enjoys the cadets coming and spending their time in Greenwood. Greenwood will be one of our supporters for some time to come, and we’re very proud of that.
LISA ROBERTS: This may be a similar question, but I think perhaps a different answer. We’ve heard different things about Legions dropping in numbers. Some Legions have closed, so what’s the picture on that like across the province as you look towards the future long-term viability of the cadet program?
ELAINA GAETAN: Every squadron, ideally, will have a sponsoring body which is usually some type of service club, so it could be a Legion or a Lions Club or a Kiwanis Club, and depending on the strength of that particular service club, they are able to support the squadron or not. There are instances where a Lions Club is down to 11 members and it’s a challenge for them to make their minimal commitment to the squadron.
We have seen, as is happening across the country - I’m thinking of one squadron in particular in Nova Scotia, where their sponsor was not able to meet their commitments, so a parent group got together and formed a sponsoring body where they fundraise, and they are the sponsoring body for the squadron. That seems to happen more often in some other parts of the country. Here in Nova Scotia, our community groups seem to be hanging on a little bit better. But it is challenging, I think, for them, especially when they’re struggling with their own membership.
BRUCE MORSE: Thanks, Elaina. Just to add, we have circumstances today where sponsors and mostly Legions, as we realize their membership is dwindling - they’re most certainly wanting to do what they can for our youth. There are areas in our province that perhaps if this is the case, we won’t - for the sake of closing down a squadron - disband a sponsorship. We will most certainly do our best to maybe combine a sponsorship.
We’re very fortunate, as well, in Nova Scotia to have some squadrons that have more than one sponsor: 545 Liverpool, for example, has three sponsors and 517 Greenwood has two sponsors. That situation is out there, as well. These are long-standing sponsors as are the Legions. The Legions have been there for this youth program for a long time, and I assure you at the league level we deal with both. We deal with what to do with that squadron that’s low in numbers and what to do to assist the sponsor that might be having their problems as well. I assure you, both of them are being dealt with by the league.
THE CHAIR: We will move on to the Liberal Party. Mr. Jessome.
BEN JESSOME: Out in my neck of the woods, we’re home to 250 Vimy, and I believe that Mr. Rankin and Mr. MacKay would also be responsible for - some of their constituency would be part of 250 Vimy. I’ve had the fortune to experience to be involved ongoing with our Remembrance Day ceremony over the last several years.
Mr. Morse, you referred to the partnership that you’ve appreciated with Gagetown. Certainly, our office and our committee has been very proud of the relationship that we have with 250 Vimy in maintaining and supporting that particular initiative. Quite honestly, it would not be the success it is without their support. That sentiment could be expressed to organizations like the food bank or the Bay Treasure Chest or any number of organizations. I just wanted to add that before I ask some questions.
I’ve had another cool experience through air cadets. I’ve actually been to the Debert airfield and have been taken up in one of these glider planes. If you can actually get in there - the pilots make you feel very safe despite the fact that you could probably put your hand through the wall of the aircraft. I think that’s a really cool experience. Ms. Clyburne, I’m rooting for you to get in this year. It sounds like you’re putting your best foot forward, and we wish you all the best in that application.
Mr. Morse, you touched on the importance and the efforts towards maintaining a knowledge or an awareness about wartime and the intention to pair up, where possible, cadets with veterans to try to achieve that experience. Aside from face to face with veterans, is there something intentional that the league as a whole is trying to achieve so that we can protect that history about what sacrifices were made by our veterans?
BRUCE MORSE: I’m not hesitating in answering; I’m trying to find the right answer. Most of your conversation surrounds me with the training syllabus at the squadron level and how such a reference should be and could be directing through national in that we would contact our office in Ottawa and make reference to the fact that we need to keep our cadets informed of what’s taken place in years younger than them to the realization of if it wasn’t for what was done then, we wouldn’t be here today, and how important that is.
I know in my case it was different, and for any of us who have experienced that opportunity, you know what I’m saying. You’re right because our young people are so young, they see veterans - they’re not their fathers or their grandfathers. They’re probably not even a relation now because there’s such an age span.
I guess, just to sum it up, point well taken. I think probably we will take this to our National Executive Director and request of him to find out if they can include this, or if it already is, how they’re doing it.
ELAINA GAETAN: I’m just wondering if Flight Sergeant Clyburne might be able to comment. I’m a little bit out of the loop with regard to the day-to-day mandatory training topics. She may be able to comment on whether there’s been something like that in the training syllabus in the last few years.
KATIE CLYBURNE: I know there are a couple of Level 2 classes that deal with WWII and WWI history, but there’s not really all that much. I know I covered those classes this year. Really, they’re not given that much exposure to veterans and conflict, whether it be WWI, WWII, the Korean War, or even more modern conflicts. There’s no exposure to it, really.
I know that last year, another cadet from my squadron and I were selected to go to Vimy Ridge as part of the Vimy Foundation, so we did bring that back to our unit and we talked to our squadron sponsor Legion. We did give a talk to our Level 3 and 4 cadets - all of our senior cadets - this year about the contributions of Canada during WWI and the sacrifices that those Canadian soldiers made at Vimy, Ypres, and during the Somme.
It’s not really stressed; I would like to see it stressed more, but I think that’s just my opinion.
BEN JESSOME: I appreciate that feedback. I believe we have such a significant serving military presence and such a significant cadet presence and some wonderful historic capacity, namely through the military library at RA Park, the military museum at Citadel Hill, and what’s the one in Pictou?
Anyway, there’s so much history that has been placed in our own backyard that I think we do have the potential to maintain that historic knowledge in the next generation, but if I’m hearing correctly, it’s possible that there can be more of an intentional effort to do that. This may be an avenue to do that, so that sounds great to me.
I had one more question. Mr. Morse, you mentioned that there was some fundraising taking place to replace one of the tow aircraft in Debert, presumably. What’s the status on those efforts?
BRUCE MORSE: Good timing, because we had a teleconference last evening with the four Atlantic Provinces dealing with such.
Currently, the aircraft that we have today are flying but soon will need to be replaced. The cost of a new aircraft is well over $100,000 so each province - Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador - we do our best to provide familiar flying through the air cadet program, normally at 14 Wing Greenwood, some in Debert, and some in Newfoundland, but Newfoundland has weather areas to deal with. We in Nova Scotia are very fortunate to have Debert and Greenwood.
[3:00 p.m.]
Cost-wise, it’s a very big expense for our smaller provinces, even for Nova Scotia, but we are the largest of the Atlantic Provinces in the air cadet numbers. There was talk last evening of trying to generate fundraisers between provinces or doing them jointly. For example, having a major fundraiser and we’re just touching the surface with some of this now because we realize, or we’ve been told, that we’re soon going to have to purchase an aircraft every year for probably the next three or four years to replace the current fleet.
We’re all kind of scrambling to wonder how we are going to get these donations. We can’t knock on doors every day to expect our business world to provide the monies for these aircraft. Yes, there will be the sale of them, but I assure you, you’re not going to get $70,000 or $80,000 for a used aircraft.
In answer to your question: we’re going to come together jointly and decide soon in the new year what projects we can generate within our own province that will begin the process of fundraising and then how much each province will be able to donate towards such a campaign. That’s basically where we are with it, but I assure you - good question - we will keep you informed as to what that outcome is.
THE CHAIR: We will move back to the PC Party. Ms. Masland.
KIM MASLAND: You mentioned in the beginning of the presentation that the cost of the program is federally funded, so I have a couple questions in relation to that because we’re also talking about the fact that many of these local squadrons need sponsorship to continue.
My question is: Have there been any cuts to this program, or increases to this program, from the federal government? How does that money sprinkle down, or does any of that money sprinkle down, to the local squadrons, and what would the percentage be for our province that we will be getting - if you know those?
BRUCE MORSE: Actually, I don’t. Your question is a question that I would have to take to national because it’s in Ottawa where all those decisions are made, where the funding is finalized, and we don’t really get much of that information until we visit Ottawa or attend an annual general meeting, which next year will be in Saskatoon, and a lot of that conversation is brought to us.
All I can say is yes, I’ve heard you, and I will do what I can to get an answer for you and advise, but I do not have an answer right now.
THE CHAIR: Mr. Morse, you can send that information to us at any time; it can be emailed.
KIM MASLAND: I expect this is probably going to be my last question. I just want to comment to Ms. Clyburne that when I’m sitting here listening to you speak in the beginning, I think about the Dr. Seuss quote, “Oh, the places you’ll go!” You’re a brilliant young lady, and thank you for what you’re doing and the community work that you’re doing.
We talked earlier about entering into schools to help recruit youth to the program. I’m wondering if you yourself have gone into schools to make presentations. I realize that the cadet program is for 12- to 18-year-olds, but if you have, how often would you go into schools and at what age would you start presenting to?
KATIE CLYBURNE: Since I’ve joined cadets, I know that my squadron hasn’t gone into schools, but I know that some squadrons do. I think that’s mostly concerned with the officers going into schools at the beginning or end of school years to generate interest for the next year. I think Grade 6 and lower middle school would be a good ages to target because that way the kids can get the most out of the air cadet, army cadet, or sea cadet programs.
Another way that interest is generated is all schools have a Remembrance Day ceremony. I know cadets at a lot of the schools are asked to wear their uniforms at these Remembrance Day ceremonies or speak at them, lay wreaths, act as sentries if there is a cenotaph and throughout the community.
We don’t necessarily - at least my squadron - talk to people at schools to generate interest, but I know that the Remembrance Day ceremonies definitely do generate interest through the schools. Then people will be asking you about what the program is about. I know I’ve got a couple new cadets at my school generated from the Remembrance Day ceremonies.
ELAINA GAETAN: I know that over the years there has been a lot of talk, discussion, and strategy on recruiting cadets, and a lot of ideas - they talk about going into schools, they talk about social media and all these ideas. It always seems to come down to word of mouth through friends, relatives - that seems to be where recruiting is the most successful.
THE CHAIR: We’ll move on to the NDP. I do have a question and it’s kind of related, if I may. As a Chair I’m not allowed to ask questions, but I’m wondering - because of immigration and the numbers that we’re seeing, are you seeing any interest in cadets from the newcomers or the immigrants, and how are you trying to attract them at schools?
ELAINA GAETAN: In travelling to the different squadron demographics, in particular, I’ve noticed that at 292 there is a great deal of diversity. I’ve spoken with some of the cadets who have immigrated from other countries. I don’t know if Sergeant Clyburne wants to speak about that.
KATIE CLYBURNE: We’ve noticed a lot of new cadets coming in, whether they’ve moved from Africa - we have a whole bunch of Level 1s and 2s who come from South Korea. We have a lot of Chinese immigrants in my squadron. I figure that probably close to half of my squadron is not originally from Canada or they have parents that are first-generation Canadians. I can’t attest to all squadrons around Nova Scotia, but I know that my squadron is extremely diverse in that aspect.
THE CHAIR: Wonderful, thank you so much. Ms. Roberts.
LISA ROBERTS: Just to briefly comment, when I did go to that change-of-command ceremony, it was obvious to me that there was a lot of diversity in that squadron.
Related to that, I wondered about what the cost is, if any, to the actual participants in cadets. Are there barriers or is it completely free of charge?
ELAINA GAETAN: That is a wonderful question, I’m so glad you asked. We are so proud of Nova Scotia that we continue to offer the program for free for all cadets. They are charged indirectly an assessment fee per cadet that goes to our national office for the running of the office, but that is provided usually by either the squadron’s sponsoring committee or the sponsor. In provinces like British Columbia, every cadet must pay - their family must pay $100 per cadet per year.
When I went through the program many years ago, it was free, and if it had not been free, I would not have been able, frankly, to go through the program. I’m so pleased and proud that we continue to offer the program free here in Nova Scotia.
LISA ROBERTS: That is great, and related to that - only in that it’s related to money and in part inspired by a conversation I had this morning with the acting executive director of the Community Foundation of Nova Scotia. We were talking about all of the different organizations, particularly non-profit organizations, many of which are headquartered in my constituency of Halifax Needham, in the north end of Halifax. We were talking about the management and the work that’s involved in managing funds, be it endowment funds or donations.
Related to that, I’m wondering if each squadron is managing its own finances, and does that mean that you need multiple volunteer accountants or other people who are able to do that? Are there ways that an organization like the Community Foundation of Nova Scotia, which is kind of gaining strength - we’re relatively new in community foundation work in Nova Scotia - but is there a way that reaching out to an organization like that could assist with some of that lifting of the management of funds?
I imagine cadets would be the sort of organization where you would occasionally have donors who would like to actually leave money to an endowment fund. It strikes me as very much a legacy- and history-tied organization.
BRUCE MORSE: Yes, we do have that, and each squadron has their own squadron sponsoring committee. We’re in the process of putting it together right now - like you had served on, Mr. MacKay.
Within that squadron sponsoring committee, there is a treasurer who is responsible for keeping track of the funding and all of the fundraisers that they may have. Each squadron, at times, has a fundraiser for whatever means they wish, but that is their usual main source of funding aside from what the sponsor contributes. That’s mainly set up at their own merit.
Each squadron, for example, starts out a training year with $2,000 or $1,000. They turn that over to their treasurer, and from that, they use the monies as they see fit to do whatever they wish; everything else is pretty much provided. Uniforms are provided by the military and the sponsor looks after finding them a place to have their training, et cetera.
With reference to leaving monies to a squadron, that most certainly does happen and we most certainly would accept that. There is a process to do so, but anything would be welcomed and appreciated. If you know of anyone that would like to donate in any way, please send them our way.
THE CHAIR: We will move to the Liberal Party. Mr. MacKay.
HUGH MACKAY: We used to have two primary fundraisers. One was in the Spring which was a fashion show; my modelling career on the runway was 20 years and 20 pounds ago, I guess. Then we did an annual one just before Christmas. In Ottawa, we had the Hershey chocolate factory just outside of town in Smiths Falls. We’d go down and get a whole bunch of different little chocolate bars that we would get from them donated to us, and our sponsoring committee would spend a Saturday afternoon putting bags of these things together that we would then sell to other Kiwanians or neighbours and so forth. They were great fundraisers.
The comments about diversity; your numbers are similar, Flight Sergeant, to the ones that we had at the 211 squadron. Very much a program that first-generation and second-generation families found very easy to come into, and because of the citizenship and the leadership things that were going on, it was a very easy program to assimilate to.
I remember one of my great pleasures was all these kids who really, many of them, didn’t know anything other than urban living and taking about 25 of them or so out to rural Saskatchewan to ride around on great big combines and everything in an exchange trip we did with a group in Kamsack, Saskatchewan. It was just a wonderful occasion.
[3:15 p.m.]
I’m going to come back to the more mundane, I guess. Flight Sergeant, I was wondering if you could kind of run us through what a typical training night is like for the squadron. What are the activities you would go through?
KATIE CLYBURNE: At the beginning of the night, we generally all arrive and then we form up everyone, so we fall the cadets into our two flights. At that point, we mark our uniforms. We talk to them to see how everything is going and then after about a half-hour, we go in for our first period class; it’s a half-hour long. Immediately after first period class, they go in for their second class. This is the same class because they’re just hour-long classes. Then you have the senior cadets teaching the classes, so Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 will be sitting in the classes, and Level 5 and above - if you graduate Level 5 - will be teaching those classes.
Level 4s, at least in my squadron, sometimes do what we call OJT, on-the-job training. They will be shadowing either an officer or a senior cadet so that we can show them what senior cadet life in the unit is like so that when they hit Level 5, they’re not thrown into: you’re leading everybody now. That’s what we do at my squadron for some nights.
After second period, they have a break and then everyone just kind of talks. We have a canteen that generates some funds for my squadron; that’s generally a big hit of the night during the break. After that break, we have our last class. After our last period class, we have our closing where we do all the announcements for the week: anything that’s happening or anything that’s happened on the weekend, whether it be biathlon or marksmanship, drill team practices.
Sometimes, once a month, we drop third period altogether and it’s a CO’s parade. That’s when we have our big parade for the month. It recognizes the top cadets during the month. We do a march past, and any promotions that have been racked up during that month are handed out then. Any cadets that are being accelerated through training, like I was, are announced at that time. Any marksmanship badges or biathlon badges, sometimes Duke of Edinburgh’s Award presentations are made then. If the cadets achieved a bronze or even if they’ve been achieving a higher level of Duke of Edinburgh’s Award, that will be announced then. That’s basically how the nights run.
Then we have optional training during other days of the week. I’m a member of the marksmanship drill team and biathlon team. I also do ground schools on Thursday. There are a lot more opportunities. I’m not personally in it, but squadrons also have bands: pipe and drum bands, and regular bands. That is also some of our optional training.
HUGH MACKAY: I’m glad to hear there’s a pipe band. I’m a piper myself and I started one with the 211 squadron. Minister Rankin is a piper as well. In fact, we’ve got four pipers in the Legislature. I think we could start our own mini band.
All that aside, I think you expressed earlier in your opening comments that you had an interest in the aviation side, the aeronautical side of this. You’re obviously getting some technical types of training, but what do you see as far as what the whole package of the air cadet experience is going to give you as an opportunity to proceed into other civilian or military aviation, if that’s the route you choose?
KATIE CLYBURNE: I was exposed to a whole bunch of Level 3 aviation because I skipped Levels 1 and 2. I was immediately brought into Level 3 because I joined so late. There’s a Level 3 aviation test that every cadet in Canada is required to pass to pass Level 3 and be promoted to sergeant at the end of that year. I studied hard for that test because I had absolutely no knowledge going into it because it was all Level 1, 2, and 3 topics.
I remember I was on my Quebec trip in Grade 9 and I was on the bus reading PDFs of aviation knowledge so I could pass the test, and hopefully if I passed that, then I would be selected to go to the advanced aviation course in Greenwood that Summer. I did it and I passed it; I think I had the highest mark. I did get into the advanced aviation course, and again, it was hard for me because I had no prior knowledge of it. I wrote nine tests in two-and-a-half weeks. I passed that and then I did ground school all last year; I’m doing ground school this year. I write my glider exam this year and I don’t know - again, it’s based on numbers. My squadron has four people applying, but two people get a spot, which was the same thing last year.
Even if I don’t get the glider scholarship this year, I will still bring my ground school knowledge into an aviation career because after graduating high school, I would love to attend flight school and achieve a university degree because combined programs do exist. The air cadet ground school knowledge has really helped me and will help me if I do continue to go into aviation. If I did get glider this year, it would really help with power pilot flying because I would already know how to land an aircraft - not necessarily take off, but landing it and flying it while in the air.
Really, everyone gets a different thing out of air cadets. Whether it be music or, for me, it’s survival and aviation. Those are my specialized areas in cadets, but for some people, it’s a leadership aspect. Some people are really invested in drill in the squadron and will run the drill team or become squadron commanders. The air cadet program is different for everyone. My air cadet experience is very different from another Level 5 in my squadron; they’re completely different. It’s really whatever you make it to be.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Clyburne - a really inspiring young lady. We have another 15 minutes. Maybe if we do one quick round of one question each, and then we’ll wrap up because we have some business to look after. Mr. Ryan.
MURRAY RYAN: You’re an impressive young lady - just to listen to you, my goodness. When I hear you talk of the three planes that need replacement, I’m just wondering if there are any other resources and/or equipment in that same category where they need to be upgraded or replaced, and what are your challenges in that regard?
BRUCE MORSE: There most certainly are, and what we’re trying to do now is find parts that might be available from aircraft in the United States that are up for sale. We’re doing everything we possibly can in searching the areas just to make sure that we have the equipment at hand because we have no idea, from day to day, when we may have to replace parts or a whole aircraft per se.
It’s just like an automobile, shall I say. We have them, we fly them, we enjoy them. We bring as many cadets as we possibly can to Debert every Summer, and that has become more and more of a challenge because of weather conditions at other provincial levels. We’re doing our best to fit in the criteria of these power and glider programs, because there’s a time frame that we have to have the course completed.
Also, there’s a tow truck that’s involved with the gliders and those tow trucks have to be operational. In the new year, at the Nova Scotia provincial level, we’re going to be looking at having to buy a new truck because our current truck is not operational. The gliders themselves, yes, they go up, and sometimes safely they come down. (Laughter) Well, they come down, but sometimes they need to be replaced, and we probably will be looking at buying new gliders as well. As this program - I won’t say develops, I’ll say continues, because there are many air cadets that are so excited to earn those wings - we want to provide that opportunity for each and every one of them. It’s not only the one item; there are many items to make this program a success.
THE CHAIR: We will move to the NDP for a quick question. Ms. Roberts.
LISA ROBERTS: Just to go back for a moment to the relationship with Legions, of the 29 squadrons across Nova Scotia, how many would still have a close relationship with a local Legion? I’m sorry for speaking in sort of a follow-up there. Is there still significant enough participation of veterans in those Legions?
We’ve heard, generally speaking, that many veterans are aging and no longer actively participating in Legions. I’m wondering if those Legions are still providing that connection with veterans.
BRUCE MORSE: I did the quick math; 29 to 0. Approximately 12 to 14 squadrons are still sponsored by Legions, and I assure you that those Legions are as proud today to be that sponsor as they were 25 years ago. They are going to do their best to make sure that, with our support and your support and everyone’s support, we are going to maintain sponsorship of those cadet squadrons because their goal is to make sure that those young children have the opportunity to get what they want to have.
THE CHAIR: The last question is from Ben Jessome.
BEN JESSOME: This is probably the first and perhaps only time that we’ll get to hear about other provinces looking to Nova Scotia for their weather characteristics. My gosh, I never thought I’d hear that day, but anyway.
I would like to know, specific to the scholarships that were previously referenced - close to $20,000 in scholarships are given out - are those distributed amongst multiple candidates for each category or are we talking about that full amount being contributed to one person’s education?
ELAINA GAETAN: Those scholarships are national scholarships and it’s the full amount to one person.
THE CHAIR: Thank you, and we will wrap up the meeting today. Maybe you have some closing remarks you would like to give us, Mr. Morse or anyone?
BRUCE MORSE: Actually, I would. Little reference was made to effective speaking. Effective speaking in the Air Cadet League training syllabus is probably not that greatly pronounced, but we strongly urge effective speaking within the Air Cadet League. We have at squadron level and then at zone level - we call it zone level because our province is broken up into zones - and then at provincial level annual effective speaking competitions.
As we compete, compete, and compete there’s a winner that ends up going to the National Effective Speaking Competition, which I witnessed in Winnipeg in 2017, Laval in 2018, and St. John’s, Newfoundland in 2019. At those competitions, there were the 11 best speakers within Canada, both male and female. I want you to know we have a wonderful, wonderful cadet with us here today; to sit and listen to those young people is just amazing. They do such a wonderful job.
[3:30 p.m.]
They are anywhere from a corporal to a warrant officer in rank, but they can speak, and they enjoy the cadet program and the place is filled with league members, sponsors, those who attend the conferences. We really enjoy the fact that the squadrons are still maintaining and trying to keep this program going because it’s very, very worthy to know that young people can stand or sit in front of a group of people today, look them straight in the eye, and speak to them. Many young people today can’t do that, but this training provides them that opportunity.
Other than that, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to be here with Elaina and Katie. It has been a great experience for us; it’s our first time. We’ll go back and we have a few people we have to inform, from national down to provincial, how things went. They all know we’re here, even the new commander at Shearwater sent me an email wanting to know how things are going.
It’s great because this is something that we need to do more of, we really do. Yes, funding is one thing - we need to keep those planes in the air - but we also need to be here amongst you people realizing that we can spread the message to our young people of today. You may have a neighbour, a grandson, or a granddaughter who is 12 to 18 years of age who just might someday want to join air cadets.
Thanks to you all. Thanks for your questions. I have some notes here that I have to refer to, and we will get back to Mrs. Henry and you will have your answers. I apologize for not having all of your answers back. National items - as provincial chairs, we don’t know everything that’s going on at national and they’re not going to tell us, so I will get some answers and I will get the information back to you folks. Again, I thank you, and we’ll give Elaina and Katie a chance too.
ELAINA GAETAN: Thanks.
THE CHAIR: Thank you for coming. This has been a very informative session, and actually, I was going to ask for the sergeant’s contact information because I have a session for her in my riding to speak to young ladies and mentor them, and hopefully we’ll have more young ladies interested in what you’re going. It has been very enlightening to hear you today. Thank you again.
We’ll take a two-minute recess just so you can leave the room and we will do our committee business. Thank you again.
[3:33 p.m. The committee recessed.]
[3:35 p.m. The committee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: I call the committee back to order. I guess there’s nothing for committee business, just the meeting for next month. It will be January 21st. Darlene was informing me that she’s hoping to get attendance from VETS Canada who missed their turn last time, but they haven’t responded to her. If not, she will try to schedule Northumberland Veterans Unit which will be our witness next.
If that’s okay with everybody, we can call the meeting - are there other questions from anybody? Merry Christmas to everyone and have a wonderful holiday and a bit of relaxation with your families. Thank you again.
[The committee adjourned at 3:36 p.m.]
