HANSARD
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
Ms. Becky Kent (Chairman)
Mr. Gordon Gosse
Mr. Mat Whynott
Ms. Pam Birdsall
Mr. Jim Morton
Hon. Michel Samson
Ms. Kelly Regan
Hon. Christopher d'Entremont
Hon. Richard Hurlburt
In Attendance:
Ms. Jana Hodgson
Legislative Committee Clerk
Mr. Gordon Hebb
Chief Legislative Counsel
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HALIFAX, TUESDAY, JANUARY 26, 2010
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES
9:00 A.M.
CHAIRMAN
Ms. Becky Kent
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you for joining us this morning, folks. We'll start our meeting off with our usual introduction of members, if we could ask each of you to introduce yourselves and let us know the riding, for the record, please.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. We'll just review the agenda before we get things rolling. We do have some witnesses here today from Labour and Workforce Development. We'll introduce you or allow you to actually introduce yourselves - you can probably do a better job than I can - when we get things rolling.
We're going to proceed with appointments to agencies, boards and commissions at the beginning here and then we'll move into witnesses. We do have some committee business so when all is said and done with the witnesses, we'll have to ask you not to rush off too quickly and we'll take care of that.
At this point we'll move straight into our ABCs and the beginning of our list for today is the Department of Agriculture. I would ask you, Ms. Birdsall, if you'd like to move that forward.
MS. PAM BIRDSALL: Madam Chairman, I so move that George Smith be appointed as vice-chair of the Crop & Livestock Insurance Commission of Nova Scotia.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
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The motion is carried.
The Department of Environment. Mr. Whynott.
MR. MAT WHYNOTT: Madam Chairman, I so move that Einar Christiensen be appointed as a member of the Resource Recovery Fund Board.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Finance. Mr. Morton.
MR. JIM MORTON: I so move that Joseph B. Kennedy and Irene J. Lefort be appointed as members of the Credit Union Deposit Insurance Corporation of Nova Scotia.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Natural Resources. Mr. Gosse.
MR. GORDON GOSSE: I so move that Kenda Campbell and Greg Watson be appointed to the Board of Examiners Under the Scalers Act.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The final one, Shubenacadie Canal Commission. Mr. Morton.
MR. MORTON: I so move that Cameron Ellis and Gordon Warnica be appointed as commissioners of the Shubenacadie Canal Commission.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Is there any discussion? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
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At this stage you should all have received a presentation hard copy, if you'd like to follow along. At this point I'll move things over to the Department of Labour and Workforce Development, Employment Nova Scotia. We have the pleasure of having Ms. Carmelle d'Entremont, Director, and Ms. Vicki Elliott-Lopez, Manager of Labour Market Agreement Operations. If I could ask you to introduce yourselves and perhaps give us a little insight into your roles before we move into your presentation. Thank you.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: A slight change to that. I'm currently Acting Executive Director for the Skills and Learning Branch with Labour and Workforce Development. One of our primary areas of responsibility is managing both agreements - the Labour Market Development Agreement and the Labour Market Agreement. That will be the focus of our presentation today.
Prior to my involvement in Labour and Workforce Development, I was also engaged in immigration.
MS. VICKI ELLIOTT-LOPEZ: I am the Manager of the Labour Market Agreement Operations and my key role is to work with other divisions and departments in the development of Labour Market Agreement programs and services to align with other labour market programs to best deliver services to Nova Scotians.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: The floor is yours.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Thank you very much for the opportunity of speaking with you this morning. I have prepared a presentation so we'll go through the presentation and my assumption is that after that it is open to questions from the floor, is that right?
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Yes. Would you prefer to have questions throughout or for our members to wait? It would be fairly common to wait.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Okay, if people have a burning question, certainly. Is it better that I remain seated?
MADAM CHAIRMAN: It's entirely up to you. Seated is better for the microphone.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Great. I think the request was very specific to the Labour Market Agreement, but there are two agreements so I did take the opportunity to provide some context on both agreements. Basically, both of these agreements provide an opportunity for the province to be better positioned to meet its economic and social challenges through more coordinated and strategic investment in the development of its people, both for work and for learning. It also provides the province with a really unique opportunity to optimize what are current provincial investments, but also now married with
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the new federal investments to better align our service offerings to meet the needs of Nova Scotians who want to prepare for work, get work, maintain work and advance in their employment opportunities. So that is kind of the main focus of the agreement.
The acronyms can be a bit challenging. Labour Market Development Agreement is what we refer to as the LMDA, and I think different folks have had different presentations over time. Just to highlight, the agreement was signed in June 2008. The Province of Nova Scotia assumed responsibility for the LMDA transfer in July 2009. So it is six months that we have the governance for those program offerings and it provides the opportunity for a more cohesive service delivery system. Obviously, because it is a federal-provincial agreement there are expectations in compliance with the Government of Canada.
The LMDA, to simplify, is really the transfer of three things. The transfer of the mandate to deliver employment benefits in support measures, what we refer to as the EBSMs, as determined by Part II of the Employment Insurance Act. Just to be very clear here, Part I of the Act, which is really people's unemployment insurance, that remains the responsibility of the Government of Canada. The mandate under the LMDA is only Part II, which are support services to support interventions for individuals who want to reattach to the labour market.
Funding. This year the province is accessing roughly $80 million annually, in addition to, as part of the Economic Action Plan, the federal stimulus, there are two years of enhanced funding under the LMDA of approximately $16 million per year, just for two years only for that stimulus funding. A point that is really important to make also is that the LMDA funding, the $81 million, is not new monies to the Province of Nova Scotia. Our colleagues with the Government of Canada have been investing in spending that money for numerous years. What's new is the province now has governance control over those programs and those investments.
Staff. As you probably are very aware, we like to say that on June 30th there were about 72 federal employees who went to bed and when they woke up on July 1st they were civil servants to the Province of Nova Scotia. There was a transfer of approximately 72 incumbents and they are located in 13 offices across the province.
The LMDA comes with a very specific suite of program offerings. The Government of Canada does identify specific programs that must be offered or similar programs that must be offered. The employment benefits are those programs where there are direct supports provided to clients. You may be very familiar with skills development, we do get a lot of inquiries. Skills development is where we provide direct support to clients to return to school - so tuition, dependant care, income and so on. Targeted wage subsidy is an attachment initiative to incent employers to hire individuals they may not have done previously. Self-employment benefits allow individuals who are unemployed to receive income while they're
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trying to set up a business. Job creation partnership is primarily a partnership with our non-profit sector which allows them to employ EI-eligible individuals.
The support measures. The EAS, or Employment Assistance Services, are primarily the current development services that you may be familiar with in your communities. Labour market partnerships support adjustment initiatives. I may be going too fast, I'm just conscious of the time. So that's the LMDA. What's very important about the LMDA also is that it is for EI-eligible individuals. So because it comes from the EI Act and the EI fund, individuals who benefit from those services must have had an attachment to the labour market to qualify for EI.
The LMA is a companion piece that was made available to all jurisdictions last year - in June 2008, so a year and a half - and the LMA is really an opportunity to try to address many of the gaps that exist with the LMDA.
The LMDA provides supports to those individuals who have had attachments to the labour market but are now unemployed. The LMA was a recognition of the fact that there are individuals who have had sporadic attachment to employment not entitling them for EI eligibility, or they may have never attached to the labour market, or they may be working Nova Scotians who by definition are not employed and therefore can't benefit from LMDA.
What's exciting about the LMA is that these are actually new investments, new monies to the Province of Nova Scotia. Again, there is a stimulus enhancement available for two years only under the LMA, similar to the LMDA annual audit requirements and so on.
Basically, the LMA provides the province with an opportunity on really focusing on those traditionally marginalized from our labour market. As we know, the high percentage of those who are not engaged in our labour market tend to be many of our under-represented groups: African Nova Scotians, Aboriginals, persons with disabilities, social assistance recipients, women who have been out of the workforce for many years, and so on. There is a focus with the LMA on low-skilled employed or unemployed people, of course, who are not EI-eligible.
With the LMA, interdepartmental collaboration is key so we have created an interdepartmental committee. The three key departments that actually deliver LMA programming are Labour and Workforce Development, the Office of Immigration, and the Department of Community Services. But we have participation from Aboriginal Affairs, African Nova Scotian Affairs, Acadian Affairs, Economic and Rural Development, Nova Scotia Business Inc., and the Status of Women. So we've tried to take a very horizontal approach to looking at how we can better serve Nova Scotians through a more coordinated service delivery system that doesn't get too siloed in those who qualify for EI and those who do not.
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[9:15 a.m.]
Some of the priorities under the LMA have been enhancing client access and support, so really reaching individuals who would not have been able to access services in the past; skills development and learning, with a heavy focus on literacy and adult learning programs; workforce attachment would be those initiatives that really try to combine learning with actual attachment to labour market opportunities, so partnerships with business and industry where people are actually getting work placements or mentorships in the workplace; and workforce development, which is just the word we use for those who are employed in Nova Scotia.
We know, for example, those who are currently in our labour force, we will have in our workplaces for many years to come. Our labour pool would be shrinking, we need to invest in those who are currently employed to make sure that they can adapt. There is a real feeling that although servicing unemployed Nova Scotians is critical, there has to be some targeted focuses on serving those individuals who are currently in our labour market and working.
These are just high-level examples of some of the new activity under the LMA that we've been able to engage in. As an example, we have over $2 million investment-enhanced programming to serve newcomers to Nova Scotia - so immigrants, permanent residents of Canada: language programming; bridging programs - programs that allow individuals who are internationally educated to perhaps address some of the gaps that they have so that they can attach to meaningful jobs in their profession; business development for immigrants - many of our immigrants are entrepreneurs and are looking for opportunities to start new businesses.
We have over $3 million in new investments for social assistance recipients, so we've expanded through a partnership with the CPN for persons with disabilities - the Collaborative Partnership Network - which are supports for employed individuals who have disabilities, who are placed in the workplace. So again, often we invest a lot of time and energy in allowing someone to be prepared to attach but we sometimes don't provide the necessary supports to ensure that they're successful once they have found employment. Women's re-entry programs, life skills - so again, a few more examples of LMA activity.
Adult learning programs, which would be our literacy - the School for Adult Learning initiative; programs to expand workplace education, so essential skills in the workplace to help supervisors and employees manage workforce transitions appropriately. Age advantage would be older worker initiatives - because we're a declining population, we know that we have to find ways of engaging older workers for a longer period of time - and there's a lot of emphasis on information technology with that target group, obviously. We have also supported some coordinators with four specific target groups, to work with them
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collaboratively to look at labour market programming - again, a focus on trying to address displaced workers who are affected by the economic downturn.
So just a few quick more slides - I think I'm running out of time.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Take your time. I think we're okay, we don't need to rush you.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Where do we go from here? Again, the transfer of the LMDA and then the addition of the LMA really positions the province in a place it has never been before. It provides us with a real opportunity to take stock of what are the programs and services that are required for unemployed Nova Scotians, or employed Nova Scotians, and how do we better organize to provide those services? How do we make sure there is proper alignment between the federally devolved programs and perhaps other provincial programs? So over the next few years we are looking at spending some time looking at how we can ensure better harmonization and coordination and ensuring that the investments we make are really in keeping with provincial priorities and strategies.
We need to have more nimble and responsive market programs. As we know, our economy is shifting tremendously so some of our older ways of working may not be the most effective. For example, if we know that we're attracting certain companies with our partnerships with Nova Scotia Business Inc. and they will require certain skill sets, how can we ensure that we are anticipating and reacting more quickly, to ensure that those companies have the skilled workers they need? So again, a better matching of supply and demand.
Improved efficiency and accountability. One of the benefits of the LMDA devolution is that we have received funding from the Government of Canada to create a new information technology platform. We've decided that platform should not just be used to manage LMDA funding, it should actually be a resource for three key departments that deliver labour market programs. So it's a tool that will be used by Labour and Workforce Development and the Departments of Community Services and Immigration to manage agreements, to case manage clients, and it will provide us with an opportunity to do better data collection and better analysis so that we're really making some investments based on known outcomes.
The primary focus, as I mentioned, of the LMA is really to do some targeted focus on the under-represented groups in the labour market. If we're looking at the demographics, for example, we know we have a shrinking population and an older population, but where we have the populations that are actually showing some growth in their youth cohorts are the Aboriginal and the African Nova Scotian populations. Yet they have some of the poorest outcomes in terms of employment, in terms of job attachment, in terms of earning levels, in terms of education levels.
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In collaborating with our other colleagues across government, we're really trying to look at what types of supports could assist individuals in terms of providing the learning and the education that's required, but also sustaining that with an attachment to the labour market and some future supports.
Again, the other focus that we're really looking at is not just investing in unemployed Nova Scotians but also realizing that we have many employed Nova Scotians who are going to be facing labour-force transitions as the knowledge economy is requiring higher skills of our workers. We also know that there's a significant portion of our workers who are not doing so well in terms of their literacy levels, to cope with the higher skills that will be demanded in the future. For Nova Scotia to really increase its workforce productivity, we need to work with our employer community to enhance opportunities for workplace education. Voilà.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. We will open the floor to questions. This is our first witness, so just to refresh and let everyone know, the generally accepted practice is about 10 minutes per person. If we have a tremendous amount of questions we want to make sure everyone gets the opportunity and certainly, if there are not as many we can come back to you, but generally a 10-minute allotment would be great.
We very much appreciate you taking the time to come in, I'll just add that now. At this point I will open it to the floor, if anyone would like to ask a question or two, feel free. Let me know, I'll take a speakers list. Jim, the floor is yours.
MR. MORTON: Thank you for that comprehensive presentation and for being here. Maybe in part you referred to this, but I'm particularly interested in how this is kind of a change in the way we're delivering some services that have had a history, as you point out, in Nova Scotia. I'm interested in hearing you speak a little bit more about how having these funds under a provincial umbrella should be an advantage for Nova Scotians.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Particularly with the LMDA, where those funds were previously invested in Nova Scotia - and it's not a criticism of the Government of Canada and their decisions, but I think we are very aware that many of the policy directives that governed the expenditure of EI Part II dollars were set in Ottawa, looking at a global labour market across the country. Although there were attempts, obviously, to look at specific realities within each jurisdiction, I think it's fair to say that the economy in each jurisdiction is quite different.
So yes, in Nova Scotia we're seeing a slight increase in our unemployment rate because of the economic downturn, but we're not seeing the massive layoffs related to the manufacturing sector that has really impacted Ontario. This provides us with an opportunity to basically make decisions that are better in tandem, I think, with provincial strategies. For example, are the ways that we can ensure that the investments we make under the LMDA are
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better, are supportive of the poverty reduction efforts that the province wishes to engage in, great interest in better alignment of the economic agenda with the social agenda, so I think there is a feeling that perhaps in the past Service Canada, which managed the funds federally, was very focused on the unemployed, that was their primary mandate.
We, as a province, can really look at a better alignment of our economic agendas, in terms of ERD or Nova Scotia Business Inc. So are there certain sectors that we know are going to be growing? Are there certain sectors that we intend to invest in? Are there certain companies that we will be attracting? How do we make sure that with our employment benefits, we're better aligned in that way? Again, the opportunity for better decision making, I think, is very specific to a Nova Scotia reality.
The other issue is harmonization. When the Government of Canada ran the programs, of course, they weren't necessarily harmonized with every provincial jurisdiction. So we're really interested in looking at, for example, if the Department of Community Services has a targeted wage subsidy program and under the LMDA we have a targeted wage subsidy program, now we have the opportunity of looking at if we need two separate programs to serve EI and IA claims. Do we want one program offering in which the policy frameworks are coherent and meet the needs of both target groups, but with alignment, instead of having very different rules for very similar programs?
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Pam.
MS. BIRDSALL: I'm really interested in the whole literacy end of it. You talked here about working collaboratively and having interdepartmental collaboration and all these different areas. You also talked about working with employers and helping their employees become more literate - how is that being served? How does that actually work?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: There is a current program which we call the Workplace Education program and we think that's a very good practice. With the LMA funds we've been able to expand that, but that model is based on what we call literacy and essential skills, supports within the workplace. So it's not just the issue of whether or not people can read, it's the fluency by which they read. We're talking, in many cases, about communication skills in the workplace very targeted to workplace requirements.
With the Workplace Education program, we actually work with business and staff, so often teams are constructed or established in the work site that would have representation from management and from union and/or labour, or the staff, to look at some needs that are required in that community, in that work site as a community. Programs are offered, they can be offered on the work site or off of work time, but the employer is expected to make a contribution. Often the employer's contribution is to provide time during the work day for these types of supports.
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We have a number of work sites that have been participating for over 10 years. The LMA is allowing us to grow that and we're also interested in expanding that beyond literacy and essential skills. What we do find, however, is that numeracy, literacy, and essential skills like communication and problem-solving are often the foundation of other transformative changes in the workplace. People feel better about their workplaces and there are huge health and safety benefits if you have individuals who are better able to understand communication in their workplace, particularly first-aid, hazardous waste, all of those things. So we already do have that.
We've also had a number of industries obviously that have experienced, as part of the economic downturn, some closures or potential layoffs, or layoffs. We've also tried to move in with what we've been calling transition supports. In some cases it means - we've had some companies where they've had to lay off some individuals because of a certain line of business, but then they've had to reallocate those staff who might have had seniority to a new line of work within their workplace, so working to enable those staff who are now needing to learn new ways of working or new business lines. Often it's the older workers who have the seniority who stay and may not have the most up-to-date skills.
[9:30 a.m.]
I'm not sure that I've fully answered your question, so the Workplace Education program is one model. The transition supports where we're working with people after they've been laid off, or if possible before they're laid off, and this is why we're trying to go in earlier when there are potential announcements. But we're also looking at other ways of supporting and incenting employers to really have a mind shift that human resource is not just an expenditure, it's actually an investment in the future. If we look at the demographics we'll be facing, our Nova Scotia employers, even the small ones, are going to need to find new ways of supporting their workplace.
It's going to be a challenge because we all know that small employers, particularly owner-operator-run, are already having to deal with a lot of issues. I think there will be so many economic imperatives. We're also looking at if there are other ways that we can provide HR support for the smaller companies that may not be able to set up programs within their work site if they have a couple of staff but that perhaps by working with teams of employers in the region, or working by sector - so working with sector councils to see if there are ways we can provide support to employees who are working certain sectors, a more sector-wide approach instead of an employer-by-employer, again, depending on the needs.
MS. BIRDSALL: What about other areas that already have literacy programs in the province? There are parts of libraries - I mean, what else are you partnering with? Obviously you have to look to see what's there and fill in the gaps.
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MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Through what we call the Nova Scotia School for Adult Learning there is already a fairly well-defined system of community literacy organizations in the province. At the higher literacy level we have the schools boards through their adult learning programs, and the Nova Scotia Community College now has the ability to provide programming that leads to an adult high school diploma. So we really see that as a continuum.
With the LMA we have been able to provide enhanced funding to some of those literacy organizations, again acknowledging that the LMA does have the employment lens. So we enhanced funding for programming that obviously enhanced literacy skills but married that with employability skills. So it's not just literacy for the sake of literacy but also literacy for those individuals who are really looking at employment attachment. As I mentioned, we've been able to increase that funding by over $2 million.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Ms. Regan.
MS. KELLY REGAN: The LMA provides Nova Scotia with about $14 million annually and the LMDA provides about $80 million annually. I'm just wondering, how many individuals are being served under each of these programs?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Last year with the LMA, the programming started late because the agreement only started - sorry, I'm in the previous year - the agreement was only signed in the summer. So most of the programming only started - it was really three months of programming - December, January, February - and we had over 800 clients served.
With the LMA this year, we don't have the full data because we are working in a collaborative fashion. The funds are actually being managed by three different departments so we're coordinating the communication. Thus far it's over 1,400 clients being served.
With the LMDA, I think I'll have to get back to you. I know it would be exceeding that by quite many because just skills development under LMDA is over 3,000 clients, I think. I'm sorry, I don't have that number.
MS. REGAN: I'm just wondering, do you feel the proportion is appropriate given the number of people who are not attached to employment and would be covered under the LMA?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: I think it is a challenge. The LMA investments, to give a comparison point - with the LMDA under skills development, which is a program that really allows people to retrain, we're investing over $40 million just in retraining dollars. So the LMA in comparison - again, obviously we can't do the same breadth and scope of programming under the LMA that we can under the LMDA, so there is a bit of a discrepancy.
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The LMA is a six-year agreement. Obviously, as responsible for the provincial role in this, we are going to be having conversations with the Government of Canada over time to look at whether or not there are opportunities to grow those funding commitments in the future. But it is obviously still heavily favoured to the EI-eligible clients because of that distinction in the levels of funding.
MS. REGAN: It does seem to me that in the particular climate we're in now, that perhaps what works in other provinces - in Ontario, for example, where they had huge numbers of manufacturing workers laid off, we didn't have the same issue because we didn't have huge numbers of manufacturing workers. So I'm just wondering if it's not almost a cookie-cutter kind of program that works probably just fine for Ontario but is less appropriate to Nova Scotia.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Well, with the LMA, one of the benefits of the LMA - as I mentioned earlier, the LMDA comes with a more formalized suite of program offerings that are - the LMA is more flexible so the province does have more ability to shape the types of responses. So we do have the ability to respond in different ways. We can create new program offerings, we're not tied to a very specific set of programs.
However, the funding envelope is the funding envelope that we have, so that's why I also mention that we're looking at alignment of provincial dollars also. There is the federal LMDA there and the federal LMA, but there are also investments that the Province of Nova Scotia currently has in literacy, in workplace and in other programming for persons with disabilities, social services. So we believe that to maximize the federal investments, we need to really look at the provincial investments and align them in a way that we can be more strategic in the future.
MS. REGAN: Are there any specific targets for these two programs? Do we have numbers of people that we're trying to serve, get back on the employment rolls, that kind of thing?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Under the LMDA we have to present annual targets that are dictated by Service Canada, so they look to the number of clients served but also savings to the EI Act based on a very specific formula that is used by the Government of Canada. So there are three specific indicators. I can't remember the third, sorry.
With the LMA, there is no specific target. Basically this is our first year of full operation so last year was really just primarily three months of programming. This year represents the first full year of LMA programming. Within different departments that are managing funds, there were certainly specific areas that people wanted to focus on.
The challenge with targeting a number of clients, as you would appreciate, is that in some cases we're talking about an intervention that could be a two-hour workshop. In other
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cases we're talking about an individual who is supported in full-time programming over many months. So we are really looking forward to that new information technology system that I referenced because it will allow us to do better data analysis than the current tools that we have, so that we can look at not just the number of clients being served, but do better measurement in terms of what types of interventions they're receiving but also the broader outcomes.
Client follow-up is an issue, it's an issue that we're looking to address, so making sure that you have mechanisms to try to track success beyond the intervention is a challenge. We live in a very mobile world so clients do participate in interventions, relocate from the community, so even though we may have a case manager working in a small community, the client may have moved and not given information as to where they are, and obviously the interprovincial mobility also - a long answer to say we don't have very specific targets right now for LMA in terms of the number of clients served.
MS. REGAN: Would it be possible to get the targets for the LMDA?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Yes.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Are you finished?
MS. REGAN: I have more but, you know . . .
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Okay, we'll move on, thank you. Mr. Whynott.
MR. WHYNOTT: Thank you very much and thanks for coming today. It's obviously important for the public to understand what the province is doing for people who are not only employed, but unemployed as well.
Obviously we're talking about a significant amount of money here. What is Labour and Workforce Development doing to ensure that the funds are going where they're most needed?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: I think one of the keys for us was the interdepartmental collaboration. Again, particularly with the LMA - the LMA is trying to address those individuals who have not been attached to the labour market, who traditionally have not been participating primarily, so it's kind of like the traditional responses obviously have not worked so it's really looking at new ways of addressing a target group that has been very marginalized. The interdepartmental collaboration has been really key to really look at the issue as not just the responsibility of one department.
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Again, the partnership particularly with Immigration, as they service newcomers; the Department of Community Services, because many of their clients obviously would be many of the clients who have long-term disengagement from the labour market - that has been one mechanism in particular.
The other issue is trying to do some analysis on our labour market information. We've recently done a lot of collaborative work with other departments to try to get a better sense of what the picture is. So if we look at focused interventions with some of the under-represented groups, what are the profiles of those groups? For example, I mentioned Aboriginals and African Nova Scotians. We know anecdotally there are many issues but when we look at even leaving-high-school statistics, they are almost 30 per cent for those target groups, as opposed to the provincial average which is - oh, I had it, I can't remember. It's not 20 per cent, that's for sure, but I'm not sure if it's 9 per cent or 11 per cent. I think part of it is also really looking at the LMI to get a better sense of how we can focus the intervention.
The other issue in terms of interdepartmental collaboration is really trying to get a sense of what already exists. We're trying to map out what the programs are that are already out there and then how you identify the gaps so, again, focused on what the services are that individuals can access if they're social assistance recipients, if they're immigrants, if they're EI-eligible. If they're not EI-eligible, what are the gaps in those service delivery systems so that the investments can be more strategic in that fashion? Sorry, I should have allowed Vicki an opportunity to pipe in.
The other issue, again, just to mention that we do have annual audit requirements, so in terms of fiscal responsibility we've been working with the departments that are managing those funds to ensure that we've got protocols in place. Again, the new information technology system that we're working on will be a wonderful asset because it will allow us to do analysis of data and tracking of investments across departments that we cannot do currently very easily.
MR. WHYNOTT: In the constituency I represent I have two quite large African Nova Scotian communities. Can you talk specifically about any projects or initiatives that Employment Nova Scotia is undertaking or the efforts between Labour and Workforce Development and African Nova Scotian Affairs and those sorts of things?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Again, I mentioned on the interdepartmental committee we have representation from African Nova Scotian Affairs. There was also an effort by Labour and Workforce Development last year to create what we call employability tables. There are four employability tables, one for the francophone community, so it brings together kind of all the key deliverers in the sphere of economic development and employment supports. We have a table that represents the African employment partnerships, so we've been meeting with them on a quasi-regular basis to get a sense of what some of the
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priorities are. The Aboriginal planning table, we've paid for, as I mentioned, a labour market coordinator with those targeted groups to work with the community and be a liaison with our office. I'm missing one.
In terms of specific initiatives I think I could say that when we looked at who we served last year with the very short programming that we had, we did feel that we did not fully reach the African Nova Scotian and the Aboriginal communities. We had relatively high participation of social assistance recipients, of women, immigrants, of people in the workplace who were participating but, again, it was really a wake-up call for us that continuing to offer the same is not going to work. We know that we need some more targeted interventions.
To give one example that's not necessarily - well, it would be specific to the metro region - is a partnership with the Black Business Initiative. We funded them to work with a very targeted group of clients in the construction sector, so it was basic literacy and essential skills, but with an orientation to a trade that they were interested in or had historical connection with.
[9:45 a.m.]
As a result of that intervention we have, I think, six clients who have pursued that. Some went straight to work, but others are now at the Nova Scotia Community College taking construction-related training. Again, it started off with orienting a group of individuals to a sector they were interested in and now we're trying to support them with the skills development so that they can continue. So that's one example.
MR. WHYNOTT: I'll defer my other question and you can come back to me, Madam Chairman.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. d'Entremont.
HON. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: I just want to see the connection between LMA, LMDA in areas that are largely hit by the loss of a major employer. We know the loss of Greenbrier, we know the loss in North Sydney of the parts plant, so I'm just wondering, what is the role of those two programs and, of course, with the department in working with those communities and taking those next steps? How does that work?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: What we've tried to do is where we know there is an imminent layoff or an announced layoff to go in with what we call a transition team approach. For example, Magna, in terms of those closures, there was a transition team struck, led by Labour and Workforce Development, but again bringing the federal government in terms of Service Canada. As you will recall they are still responsible for EI Part I which is
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really the unemployment benefits. If someone is laid off, they will be able to access EI funding to support them if they have enough insurable hours to qualify.
We've also brought to the table the career community supports, so the career resource centres that exist to provide some of those community supports, in some cases the regional development authorities have been engaged, but it has been kind of a team approach. What we've tried to do is look, again, at those clients who are unemployed who will qualify for EI Part I programming for income support. The LMDA gives us some of those other tools, so if they're eligible for retraining we use Part II, which is the LMDA dollars, to support them to retrain.
We've also been able to help people prior to job loss, so by using the LMA dollars prior to them actually becoming unemployed, in some cases we've intervened directly on the work site to provide some skills training for those vulnerable workers to avoid a layoff. Eastern Protein would be such an example - sorry, Louisiana Pacific would probably be a better example of that.
The other thing that we've done, in some cases not the direct support for the client in terms of retraining, but it's also transition centres. In the case of ACA and Eastern Protein, we used LMA dollars to create or extend a transition centre. So there was already some funding through the LMDA to support a career resource centre, but we've been able to augment it with the federal stimulus money we had to really address that there was going to be a spike in that community of workers who needed career supports, employment counselling, perhaps even setting up labs. In the case of ACA and Eastern Protein, we actually had learning labs set up so that the workers, pre-layoff and during layoff and after layoff, can access some supports as they're trying to settle within their family and address the issues they need to kind of set a new course for themselves.
It is a bit of a juggle sometimes because there is eligibility between the Government of Canada responsibility under EI Part I, the LMDA mandate for EI Part II and the LMA. We've tried to do where possible some blended intervention so you don't get caught up in the silos. It is a challenge though.
MR. CHRISTOPHER D'ENTREMONT: My second point to that is with the impending layoffs and job losses in southwestern Nova Scotia, because of the decision to not fund the CAT by the NDP Government, has there been any movement to set up a transition office or any work like that in the southwest at this point?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: There has been a transition team that has met once, if not twice, bringing together the representation from the employer, labour was invited - I'm not quite sure if they attended, I think they chose not to attend in that case - and the community resources to look at what supports would be required. So we've initiated the process and are looking at what is the current capacity of some of the community service
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delivery in terms of employment supports and whether or not an enhancement would be required, either in growing some of the existing services or to create a very targeted transition centre.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I'll move on now to the second round. Mr. Morton.
MR. MORTON: Thanks, again, for all this information that you're providing to us, it's very helpful to get a better understanding of a new way of delivering services in Nova Scotia. I want to come back for a moment - I have a couple of questions - to Ms. Birdsall's interest in literacy. We're probably all convinced that problems with literacy are an obstacle to our productivity in Nova Scotia and to our ability to build a capacity for economic development.
One of the things that has continuously concerned me is that we are focused on adult literacy. All this seems to me to speak to, what do we need to do to ensure people who leave the public school system have that capacity for communication, both orally and written, in a way that would help them perform effectively in the workplace? I guess I'm wondering if that issue is part of what these sets of programs are thinking about, if there's interaction with education in a formal way about how we might actually head off the need for providing literacy training to adults later in life when their lives have actually been undermined by those problems.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: There are communications between the Departments of Education and Labour and Workforce Development on a number of activities and initiatives. However, with the Labour Market Development Agreement, part of the agreement with the Government of Canada is the funds cannot be used for the benefit of the public education system. So very specific to these funding sources, they cannot be used to augment the activities of the public education system.
However, there are some areas where we can be mutually supportive in particular with youth at risk. We've identified that there is a real gap in services for the 16- to 19-year-old out of school. Oftentimes they're still the responsibility of the public school system - until the age of 20 or 21 - where they can access free public education. The adult service systems often will not consider them past 19, yet they're very vulnerable.
If you look at the dropout rates, they're very high amongst some of the future workforce that we need in the target groups we've identified. So we've certainly identified the need to look at youth at risk and will be engaging further with the Department of Education on that.
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I can't speak specifically to the Department of Education and its initiatives. My knowledge would be more not as having direct responsibility, but certainly there has been a lot of emphasis on literacy supports in the public school system. Again, I'm sharing this not as someone who has a mandate to speak, but literacy coordinators, literacy supports in the public school system and a lot of emphasis through the 2002 initiative on trying to, in the high school years, orient individuals to the workplace, so work placements, co-ops and so on.
If I could just challenge your comments slightly in the sense that what we know about literacy acquisition is that unlike education and credentials, where we tend to see them as something you get once for life, so you have a B.A. or a B.Ed. or high school and it follows you throughout life, literacy skills are more malleable and they can be gained, enhanced or lost through usage. Basically what international research has demonstrated to us is that you can have a very good public education system, but the need for ongoing skills development will be forever because of the nature of the skills and the challenges we're facing with the rapidly evolving economy.
So basically if you look at some of the international adult literacy survey data that came out a number of years ago, what it said was that Canada did a pretty good job in terms of high school graduates. What happens is skill maintenance is lost after leaving school. Basically, people are able to maintain their skills often if they're in literacy-rich environments and they're employed. People who, after leaving school, are unemployed or not engaged in literacy-rich environments lose those skills. So it's not always that they didn't get them in the first place - although there are some challenges - it's often that we have to think differently about skills and learning, that they are skills that have to be enhanced and built on. Who is particularly vulnerable of losing skills after high school completion are those who are unemployed.
Basically, what the research shows us is that jobs develop skills as much as they require them. For those of us who are in literacy-rich environments, we obviously need skills to operate in those environments, but those environments are allowing us to maintain our skills in a way that those who are away from public education and not engaged in those supports will lose those skills.
Again, when we talk about LMA trying to target those who have not had traditional attachment necessarily, there are significant barriers in terms of not just education levels, but whether or not skills are current.
MR. MORTON: May I ask another question?
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Yes, you have a couple of minutes.
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MR. MORTON: Thank you for that, it's good to be challenged. Another thing that I've been thinking about as you've been presenting is that Nova Scotia, in a sense, inherited, I assume, a number of arrangements with the transfer of funds that have evolved over time, perhaps not so much from a rational model, but contracts that may have been developed as needs were identified by the federal government and communities. I know that across Nova Scotia we're providing many services to specific groups who may have various needs related to abilities and so on. The number of those has led me to wonder about the administrative costs of some of those things.
I guess I'm wondering, with this transfer, what kind of thinking is evolving to help, in a sense, rationalize the administrative expenditure or investment in making sure that people are served, while at the same time not losing sight of the specific needs that individual groups might have?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: It is fair to say that we inherited, in the transfer, certain realities. With the employment benefits and measures that I mentioned, there are specific investment levels that are based on historical patterns. One of the things that the province had committed to when it signed the agreement in 2008, was really to spend some time looking at redesigning. Redesigning also means, are the program offerings as they currently exist working, is the policy framework appropriate and are they meeting the proper needs? The other issue is looking at whether or not the investments are properly aligned.
In the case of a lot of the employment supports, we do have many agencies, we have over 60 agencies that are supported to provide employment counselling and career development. The investment is over $22 million and that's a significant investment if you compare it to our literacy investments that may be $8 million. That doesn't mean to say that there isn't excellent work being done and that perhaps the investment is appropriate. We are going to be needing to look at what are the results and what are the expectations, but also if there are ways to better align some of our community assets.
I think we all know that in many of our rural communities or even our urban communities we do have a number of agencies that provide like programming or similar programs and they are struggling in many cases with rent, utilities and so on. I think that is a fair statement, that we are going to need to look at the administration costs for some of these agencies.
The other issue that I mentioned earlier was the potential policy incoherence between the federally-funded programs versus provincially-funded programs in the same community now being offered by the same department. We're going to need to look at if there have to be adjustments in those investments.
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If I could just add another comment. Targeted wage subsidy, to give one example, with the Labour Market Development Agreement, we are hearing that employers have shortages, but out of a $1 million budget with the federal enhancement, we're spending just over $1 million. So it's like a 1 per cent investment in the targeted wage and most of the investments are in the career development supports and the skills development supports. So why is that program not more attractive under the LMDA? Is it because of onerous administrative burdens that we need to address? Is it because it's not marketed appropriately and our employers are not aware of it? Are there other reasons why we have employers who say they have need for workers, but they're not accessing this program that may allow them? That would be another area where we'd be looking at whether we need to spread the investments differently against all of the employment benefits and measures.
MR. MORTON: One quick question?
[10:00 a.m.]
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Your time is just about up and that was your second round. We still have three others on the list. I'm sure we'll get back to you, but in fairness to the other members I'm going to go to Mr. Gosse. If you can hold that thought, Mr. Morton. Mr. Gosse.
MR. GOSSE: Thank you for coming in today and explaining the LMDA and LMA for those of us who can use that knowledge in our ridings. My colleague across the table mentioned decisions made by government to close industries. I wish something like this was available when the former Progressive Conservative Government closed Sydney Steel, for a lot of these workers today would have the skills. I just saw in an article in the newspaper recently about a shortage in the IT sector in Cape Breton. I think the company is Techlink and bringing in workers from other countries to fill in that IT void. I was wondering, you were talking about your own information technology system, are you looking, in the future, at providing some skills development training for people in the IT sector to fill those voids in this province?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: We've had the chat about the IT specifically. With the IT sector what we find is that it's very hard to get a sense of what exactly is required. We've had some chats and people identified different needs, but it's usually not just a generic information technology program. It's do you need developers, do you need specialists in certain types of programming? We've had some of those conversations.
That really also brings us to the issue of better alignment - I guess when I mentioned earlier about supply and demand, how can we get better at anticipating what those shortages are and matching them with skills and learning opportunities quicker and making sure our educational institutions are also more responsive. I think we're very interested in working with our community college system and some of our other deliverers to make sure that the
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course offerings they are providing are in tune with the current requirements and also the anticipated requirements.
To give a few examples of other areas, one of the programs that we feel has been successful has been these workforce attachment programs that really target specific areas of need. So continuing care assistance has been identified as an area of significant shortage. With the LMA funding, we've done a number of targeted, what we call CCA link. It is taking individuals - in some cases they were social assistance recipients, in other cases they were not, they were unemployed Nova Scotians - and providing them with some literacy and essential skills in addition to the CCA training, and also having as part of that partnership an employer who is ready to hire. So the placement rate for some of these CCA link programs has been over 80 per cent.
Again, are there other sectors where we know there are very specific shortages that we can bring the employers to the table early on, so that we're not just training people for "what" but we're training people for what we know are real opportunities and we've got the employers engaged early.
Again, my long answer is yes, we've talked about IT, do not have a specific intervention on IT right now.
MR. GOSSE: Thank you. The employment rate is probably hovering around 15 per cent in Cape Breton, a little over this month anyway, which will change on February 9th.
My other question is the Skills Development Program, how does the department decide the skills of somebody applying for that, who already have marketable skills and are denied the funding for that program?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Right now, again, with the Skills Development Program under the LMDA, we've accepted the devolution as is. So we're working off the program criteria that existed prior to devolution and we're just now getting at looking at those.
Basically what we've tasked our staff to say is, what are the eligible cost categories and what should that look like? Who are the clients we are serving? Are we serving the right clients and thirdly, what about the interventions that we're supporting to the investment in skills?
Marketable skills is one of the eligible criteria currently so we say individuals must be two years out of school and have a two-year labour force attachment. They don't have to be employed but they have to be EI-eligible, so they would have had to be employed enough. They have to demonstrate they were looking for work.
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The marketable skills is that if individuals already have particularly post-secondary education and training, we don't necessarily invest just in career change. So we're trying to make sure that we invest those resources in those that are most vulnerable. So in some cases you have individuals who have education and training and there may be opportunities available but they have decided that they wish to change that career. At this point we don't support career change. So the marketable skills would be looking at what background they currently have, what has been their pattern of employment with that background, and what are the labour market prospects for that occupation?
It's not a perfect science and we certainly do get complaints from individuals who have been displeased.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Gosse, thank you. A supplementary for Ms. Regan.
MS. REGAN: I would like to follow up on what Mr. Morton was talking about in terms of the agencies that were providing assistance to specific groups, like the disabled. I'm just wondering, have we seen withdrawal of funds from these agencies at this point? Have any shut down or anything like that?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: No. We're actually funding to comparable levels as the Government of Canada did currently this year, and actually that's under the LMDA. Most of the agencies get their core funding for employment supports under the LMDA, under the benefit, the measurement called Employment Assistance Services.
We've maintained similar funding levels to last year, or grown actually, for most agencies. The agencies are all at different stages. Because it is multi-year funding some agencies are working on agreements that they had signed prior to transfer, others are in the middle of negotiating new agreements. The start and end dates for agency agreements are staggered throughout that time frame.
With the LMA we've actually been able to augment some supports to many of those agencies. For example, the community Collaborative Partnership Network for persons with disabilities has access to over $1 million through a partnership with the Department of Community Services, to do enhanced vocational supports for employees, individuals who are placed in employment.
So again, they've had, in some cases, some of the agencies have accessed additional funding under the LMA. Under LMDA they would be dealing with comparable levels of funding as in the past.
MS. REGAN: So at this point do you anticipate seeing any of those agencies having their funding arrangements substantially altered?
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MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Not in the upcoming year. I think we are going to be looking at - again, if I could just put the context that the province accepted responsibility six months ago and part of that challenge was, based on the advice of the other jurisdictions, it was transition, stabilize and then look at transformation.
The stabilization is really making sure that the staff that devolved and came over are on solid ground and our program offerings are solid in that we've not had any glitches in terms of client files and so on. So it has really only been the last couple of months that we started to look at how we want to do things differently. At this point it is premature for us to say. I think we are acknowledging that with the employment assistance - it's a significant contribution, it's over $22 million that is invested in those support systems across the province. It is 20 per cent of the LMDA budget. When the federal stimulus money goes away, that additional $16 million, it could grow to 25 per cent, 30 per cent of the total LMDA budget.
I think it is fair to say that we need to look at those investments, that there is no immediate plan to cut funding in that fashion. It is really looking at - we need to have better analysis of our outcomes.
MS. REGAN: Certainly it has been expressed to me by some of the agencies that they're quite worried, particularly because there were closures in other provinces when this same kind of arrangement came to be in Ontario and New Brunswick, for example.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: We know we need to improve our communication with some of these agencies. Again, the transition was successful, we've had very little issues in terms of the transitions. We're very pleased with the transfer. However, we know there is a lot of anxiety with many of the agencies that, although sometimes critical of the administrative burden that the federal programs had, did have historical relationships that they knew and had history. So I think that really is our responsibility to make sure, as the leadership at Labour and Workforce Development, that we are working collaboratively with those agencies, so we're looking at a consultation process or just an outreach process because we have heard also that there is some anxiety.
If it's appropriate for me to say, we also know that in some cases there has been misinformation. We've had inquiries from individuals or agencies or, in some cases elected officials, saying we've heard that this has been cut when, in fact, it hasn't. I think the onus is really on our department, perhaps, to maybe improve our communications so that people feel they're getting accurate information, so we'll make it a responsibility to do so.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Mr. Whynott.
MR. WHYNOTT: I have just one quick question. Say, for instance, I'm a person from Middle Sackville who has recently become unemployed or knows that something might
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be coming down the tubes where they might lose their job or potential retraining comes about, how would that person contact Employment Nova Scotia or what would be the best mode of contact for that resident to be in touch with?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Actually the Province of Nova Scotia has a model where some of those first-level services are devolved, the Government of Canada had that model. So the employment agencies in the field are funded to really provide some of that first-level interaction with laid-off workers or potentially laid-off workers. They provide some of that first-level counselling and can do an assessment, including doing what we call a return-to-work action plan.
As a first point of contact we usually encourage people to contact the employment agency in their community. That agency will look at their profile, work with them to develop a return-to-work action plan, if they are unemployed, to look at are they eligible for some of our program offerings, which would be the skills development or the targeted wage and so on. That is usually the first point of contact, often, with those agencies.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Ms. Birdsall.
MS. BIRDSALL: I was interested, you were talking about marketing the programs and letting people know exactly what you are doing and how you are doing that, in this long list of people you are working with, I'm interested in the Advisory Council on the Status of Women. How is that connected? How are you marketing that through that agency? Is it with women's centres in the province?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Not necessarily. The Status of Women's mandate is primarily advisory, so they are not as an entity actively engaged in programming. They see their role on our committee as being mostly advisory, so they really bring to our attention issues related to women's employment and women's economic opportunities.
All of our partners at the table, however - for example, we did have a request for a proposal, an RFP, that we issued this year from Employment Nova Scotia. It was circulated with our members, so all of the partner departments would have had it at their disposition to then circulate it within their networks. I'm quite sure the Status of Women did circulate it amongst some of their partner agencies in that way.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I'm very pleased to be able to offer the floor to Mr. Morton for his supplementary question.
MR. MORTON: Thank you, Madam Chairman, for your generosity. I have just a brief question that may have a brief answer. I represent Kings North, an area where agriculture is a significant part of our economy, a significant issue all across Nova Scotia, and agriculture has many challenges. One of the significant ones is finding a way to help
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young farmers find a place in agricultural businesses. I'm just wondering to what extent the LMDA has considered some ways of assisting young people in moving into agriculture. Is that something that has been on the agenda at all?
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: More under LMA than LMDA. Actually, we've met recently with officials from the Department of Agriculture. We've tried to look at sector approaches because in part, as was identified earlier, the LMA dollars are not as big as the LMDA's so doing a lot of individual client interventions, we can't do it in the same fashion, so we've looked at sectors - we met recently with Agriculture to look at the program offerings they deliver and are there additional supports that we could provide to the agricultural sector, focusing on the owner-operators or the small - well, the nature of that industry being small employers. We've just initiated those conversations with that sector to see if there's kind of a sector-wide initiative, or if there's a specific training requirement.
It was less about re-entrance, to be quite fair. The conversation was not so much about bringing new people in but supporting those who were currently in. But I can certainly pursue that further with the Department of Agriculture.
[10:15 a.m.]
MR. MORTON: Just a comment on that. I've had quite a few conversations with young people and sometimes young farmers are trying to get a foothold in their businesses, but the costs of doing business are significant and their ability to actually pay their living expenses as they get established are real. Some other jurisdictions in Canada have had interesting programs to support young people to move back into agriculture. It just seemed to me to be one of those possibilities.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Again, I can't speak for Agriculture and I'm going purely from recollection, which is always dangerous when you're on the record, but I believe that there is a similar type initiative that the Department of Agriculture is funding within agriculture, not through these funding sources, to look at young workers. But that's purely going by recollection.
MR. MORTON: Thank you very much.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Thank you, committee members. It appears that we've exhausted our speakers list, but if the presenters would like to take a couple of minutes to wrap up.
MS. CARMELLE D'ENTREMONT: Thank you, again, for the opportunity. As we've mentioned, it has been interesting times at Labour and Workforce Development because the LMA and LMDA arriving at almost the same time is a challenge. You may be aware that some of the other jurisdictions under the LMDA have been devolved for 10 to 15
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years, so they've been kind of masters of their own destinies with respect to the LMDA programming. It was perhaps slightly easier for them to then look at this new opportunity.
We have both at the same time, but we've had great collaboration from the different departments and also, I think, from many of the agencies that have been patient with us as some of the communication maybe was not always what they would have desired and our clients, in some cases, who had to deal with the fact that the office locations have changed in a few cases, phone numbers have changed, who they used to speak to might have changed. So just to acknowledge the collaboration that we received on many fronts.
To summarize again, the LMDA and LMA are really funding sources that provide a unique opportunity for the province to really change the landscape of labour market programming. So we had existing programs, we now have new funding and new programs, and then how do we really look at them critically in a way to say, how can we reorganize what we deliver and how can we deliver so that we're making more strategic and coordinated investments, and providing the right supports to the right people at the right time to help them prepare for, get and maintain employment?
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Again, thank you very much on behalf of the entire committee for coming in. We certainly appreciate hearing that our department and government is doing what we can to make sure we give Nova Scotians every opportunity to train, be retrained and opportunities for employment and we all want that. Thank you so much for your contribution to that, we appreciate it. We're going to continue on with our business but feel free to get yourselves going. I'm sure you have other things to do than listen to us.
Committee business is a deferred item that we have from our December 8th meeting. We had a request on behalf of Ms. Regan, through one of her Liberal colleagues, for the committee to consider having two private individuals come in to advocate on behalf of their child. We've done some research, our committee staff have, and we have determined, in fact, that there has not been a precedent for that at this committee. We had two, and one as recently as 2008, and one would have been your colleague, Ms. Whalen, who was in the Chair at one point, in fact, in the past.
With that, I'm going to suggest that the committee remain on that front with a consideration that there are a couple of options for that family, and it has been suggested in the past, on record, that as an individual they could attach themselves to an organization and come in with an organization - the mandate of the committee is to hear from organizations - attach to an organization, come in as one of the presenters for that organization and then be heard. The other option, of course, is to go directly to the Minister of Community Services in a more direct way. Having said that, Ms. Regan.
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MS. REGAN: I would just like to point out they were not just advocating on behalf of their own children, they were advocating in general on behalf of children who have learning disabilities and other developmental delays and who are finding it difficult to negotiate through the system, number one; number two, they have already tried going directly to the Minister of Education and have been told that she cannot meet with them, she does not have time.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: I understand that would certainly be discouraging for them, I appreciate that. Again, I would encourage you to encourage them to work with an organization that is able to come in, that fits the mandate of the committee, if they are able to do that. Outside of that, I'm not sure what to suggest for consideration before the minister; without the background on what their request was that went through to her and her staff, I can't comment on that.
Unless there are any other comments on that we'll proceed to our next meeting date, February 23rd, 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. We'll have ABCs as usual, and the Department of Education is on the docket for a presentation regarding the School Capital Construction Program.
Outside of that, I thank you all for attending and we'll see you - Mr. Samson, before we adjourn.
HON. MICHEL SAMSON: I believe, Jana, you sent out some correspondence relating to the issue of deferring some appointments. I'm assuming everyone did get a copy of that. I am hoping that will assist, especially with the government members who have a majority on the committee, in seeing some of the history of this committee with appointments where there has been a request for more information on it.
I'm certainly hoping the document provided will indicate that there has been a co-operative approach to addressing any concerns that members raise to those appointments, as I have noted that any attempts to defer appointments up to now - since the new government has taken place - have been refused. So that information has been provided and I certainly hope it will assist in the upcoming meetings. Thank you.
MADAM CHAIRMAN: Thank you, I appreciate that. I guess on that note, just to refresh for committee members, we have done a little more - we've found more information or just really reaffirming the mandate as it stands right now, which is to consider qualifications of the individuals around affirmative action concerns and, where relevant, perhaps the regional representation. Those are the two main focuses that this committee has been struck to address but recognizing, as well, there potentially is room for reconsideration of the mandate, and go from there. Thank you, Mr. Samson.
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The meeting is adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 10:23 a.m.]
