MR. CHAIRMAN: With the arrival of our three NDP, we now have a quorum and we will commence. In front of you, you all have a letter from the Department of Health asking you to waive notice of some appointments to the Pharmaceutical Society Council of Nova Scotia. They would like to have three appointments and they feel they would like to do it now rather than wait to the last Tuesday of January. Do you want to deal with it now, or do you want to think about it for the next few minutes and deal with it at the end of the meeting?
MR. JOHN HOLM: Can I just ask a question? Has the committee had the practice, in the past, of giving any such waivers?
MR. BROOKE TAYLOR: On rare occasions.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, we are great for precedent setting. We never have to follow the old dyed in the wool traditions, John, you know that.
MR. HOLM: That is because we have a flexible Chair.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You got that right. (Laughter) All right, do you want to deal with that now or later?
MR. HOLM: I suggest later. It will give people a chance to think about it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, Mr. Spurr is here and he is going to discuss it with us.
There is another thing we will deal with now. Secretary, would you please, on behalf of this committee, send a letter to the Minister of Health. It is with regard to the Registered Nurses Association of Nova Scotia, who have written to each and every one of us requesting that two appointments be made to the board. So, could we, from this committee, convey that to the minister?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, then, we will get down to the book. The Department of Agriculture and Marketing, Farm Loan Board.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Could I just make a few comments, Mr. Chairman. I do not know what the practice has been, but there is certainly no one new going on the Farm Loan Board. As well, there is no representation from Cape Breton and there are farming communities in Cape Breton.
MR. CHAIRMAN: There are indeed. One of the largest vegetable farms in Eastern Canada, the Eyking's farm, is in Cape Breton, and there are also very large poultry producers.
MR. TAYLOR: There are some strawberry growers too.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I believe with these two, does that mean the board would be full or is there still room for one more? They are both women. Now, if you have something against having women on the Farm Loan Board . . .
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I do not have anything against having women.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, then you are certainly speaking as though you have something against women.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Two men and three women if the board is approved, is that what they said?
MR. CHAIRMAN: It may be such a thing. I do not know why there isn't somebody there from Cape Breton, but there is not. There is probably not anybody from Yarmouth.
The Department of Agriculture and Marketing, Farm Loan Board. Could we have a motion please.
MR. LAWRENCE MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move Marlene MacMillan and Carol Versteeg be appointed to the Farm Loan Board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Economic Development and Tourism, Peggy's Cove Commission. Could we have a motion please.
MR. JAMES MUIR: Mr. Chairman, I so move that John Campbell be appointed as Chairman; and Murray Garrison, Michael Nash Kelly, and Eliza Manuel be appointed as members to the Peggy's Cove Commission.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Education and Culture, Provincial Apprenticeship Board.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I so move these names en bloc: Michael Bren, Sheila Campbell, Paul Christie, Darrell Garland, Charles Henman, George MacLean, David Thomson and Bradford Townsend.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Finance, Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission.
MR. PETER DELEFES: Mr. Chairman, if there are no objections, I so move that these people be appointed to the Halifax-Dartmouth Bridge Commission: H. Larry Doane, Linda Moreash, Donna Foulkes, Bill Stone and Michele Wood-Tweel.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Justice, Law Reform Commission of Nova Scotia.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move Hon. A. David MacAdam to the Law Reform Commission of Nova Scotia.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Police Commission of Nova Scotia.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Again, Mr. Chairman, I would like to note that there are no appointees from Cape Breton.
MR. HOLM: How many members on that board?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I looked at that. It just says not less than three OICs.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I do not understand why they keep leaving Cape Breton out of this mix and I don't like it. Now, would you pass that on next time they are having a chit-chat over there?
MR. JAMES SPURR: I will indeed.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Things are not going to go well if they continue to do that because they have a very good watchdog.
MR. TAYLOR: What constitutes a quorum on the Police Commission? It should tell us here.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It does in the Act.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It's a good thing you are here today. You are finding out first thing that we mean business.
MR. SPURR: I am making a note and will convey that.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. (Interruptions)
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It says that three members of the Police Review Board constitutes a quorum. Am I looking at the correct one?
MR. MUIR: It says not less than three . . .
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: OICs, but in quorum, where it says, Police Review Board.
MR. DELEFES: It's the Police Commission.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Okay, they are all in there in the same section then. (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Didn't we deal with these earlier?
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, we did. We turned them back. They were not advertised before.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: They were in the first bunch that we got.
MR. TAYLOR: I think some of them have relatives in Sydney. I am quite sure they do. (Laughter)
MR. MUIR: I can tell you for sure, one of the people, her grandfather came from Marble Mountain.
MR. TAYLOR: That is good enough for me. Mr. Chairman, I so move the names of M. Jean Beeler, Paul Gates, Franklyn Jesty and Denise Mentis-Smith.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Police Review Board.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It does not tell us in the appointment background where this was advertised. It just says it was advertised October 13th. Do we know where it was advertised, since it was one of the reasons why we sent it back?
MS. MORA STEVENS (Legislative Committee Coordinator): If I may, standard from now on is the Chronicle-Herald and the Cape Breton Post. It might have been advertised in other places, but I know it was advertised in those two places.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The Police Review Board.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move Brian Creighton, Jean McKenna, Brad Barton, Linda Mary Fraser, Theresa Meuse and Gordon Patterson.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
The Department of Labour, Board of Examiners for Certification of Blasters.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Kevin Beaton and David Clark.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Labour Standards Tribunal of Nova Scotia.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move Tony Mozvik and Sharon Richard.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
Under Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council, I have been asked if we could do these one name at a time rather than en bloc.
Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Before we begin, Mr. Chairman, one difficulty I have is that, first of all, they were not advertised in the Cape Breton Post. They were advertised in the Halifax Chronicle-Herald.
There seems to be some confusion, again, with these appointments. I will say what I think and other members from our group can discuss it. What we know of this group is that they worked well together, both the labour and the business representatives and they were willing to continue. The group seemed to have been very committed to the task at hand and had begun some important work.
One thing that I would like to have clarified by the minister is why, again, the recommendations from the Federation of Labour have not been acted upon in a manner that that group thought they would be, and the understanding was that they would be. I would prefer if we deferred these appointments until we get some clarification from the minister about the federation's role in this process.
We know that when the Occupational Health and Safety Act was written, there were guidelines that were suggested at that time to fit with some of the changes in the Act, although the guidelines are draft guidelines. Again, they are draft. No minister has signed off on them but they certainly seem to be ones that were acceptable. So, I think there is clarification needed on what the minister sees as the role of the Federation of Labour.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is a pity Question Period was not on now because that would make an excellent question for an afternoon's Question Period. Have you written to the minister and asked him?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: No, I did not.
MR. CHAIRMAN: How do you want to get clarification? He does not attend this meeting.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Well, if we send the names back and ask him for clarification, and if we defer the appointments, I guess.
MR. HOLM: One of the co-chairs of the committee was, of course, one of the co-chairs of the group that worked to draft the occupational health and safety legislation in the first place. That name is not even coming forward even though it was recommended for reinstatement. I am sure, Mr. Chairman, you would remember the numerous occasions sitting where Mr. Wells and Mr. O'Brien, I believe it was, the two of them sat at the table bringing forward and speaking on behalf of the legislation.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Chairman, over to the member for Cape Breton The Lakes. On some of these appointments, for example, there is one here that is recommended and says it has been nominated by the Public Service Alliance of Canada and supported by the Nova Scotia Federation of Labour. I think there are two or three like that. So, I am kind of at a loss really to understand your point. Were they supposed to directly appoint somebody as opposed to coming from one of the . . .
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: The Federation of Labour did submit names that were not recognized. Some of the people who are there presently appear to be not really representative of workers but representative of management.
MR. MUIR: Well, I think there are supposed to be equal members of management and labour on that committee.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: No, labour and business. There are some people there who are showing up as a labour representative who are actually in a management position.
MR. MUIR: Well, what about Rick Clarke? I see he is nominated by the Federation of Labour.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: The other thing that is not clear to me through the whole thing, if we look at a Form "A" where it says, members, male and female, 9 and 5, 14, but when we go and look, we are showing on our lists that we are being asked to make 7 appointments, which would be full-time people, I guess, and there is also on a list that we have 11 people called full-time members. So, if we appoint 7 and there are 11 already there, that is 18, but Form "A" says that, "The composition of the Council following this round of appointments will be:", 14 members and 14 alternates. It is the same thing with the alternates. There is only one alternate that looks like they are staying on this council. We are asked to make the appointment of 8 alternates today and that would be 9 alternates, yet the composition says there are 14 alternates.
MR. HOLM: So, it does not add up.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, if I might, I take a little bit of a different approach from that of the member for Cape Breton The Lakes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm surprised.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, if you go through the résumés, and I have, you will find that there does seem to be a balance between employers and employees in terms of the actual membership of this advisory council. There certainly are more than, in my view, an adequate number of unionized members on the board. If you look at the statistics of people in the workforce, we understand there are 332,000 people in Nova Scotia in the workforce; 70,000 or 20 per cent are unionized and there are at least 30 per cent, maybe 40 per cent, the make-up in terms of this committee, that come from the unionized workforce.
It looks like a new group, there is no question about that, and perhaps it is time that new members were brought in. I think we should deal with these one name at a time and if we have difficulty with them, speak up. The function of this committee is to deal with the names that come forward.
MR. HOLM: One thing, if I might, going back to a point that my colleague for Cape Breton The Lakes raised. When one takes a look at the front page, the number of those being asked for, it lists the number of them. As is pointed out there, there are 8 members who are supposedly going to be alternate members. When you look at the names and positions, the listing of those who are current board members and staying on, there is one alternate member listed and that is Mr. J.D.R. (Dick) Smyth. So, that adds up to a total of 9. Yet, when you look at the list under that Form "A", they say 14. It doesn't jibe. If you look at the number of persons who they say are staying on as regular members, it is 11 and they are appointing 7 so that makes 18. Again, that does not jibe with the 14 that they say there is going to be.
It cannot be both. What are we doing? Are there some people being appointed as full-time members who really should be appointed as alternate members? It is not adding up and until we get clarification on those kinds of things, I do not know how we can appoint people to positions when we do not know what is right, what is intended. Do they mean to have in total 19 full-time members?
MR. TAYLOR: I would say, Mr. Chairman, that Section 15 of the Occupational Health and Safety Act gives the minister quite a bit of latitude in terms of the actual composition. I do not think anywhere is it etched in stone what the numbers shall be. If it is, I apologize, I may have missed it.
HON. KEITH COLWELL: I am just wondering, we are talking about all these numbers and everything and the honourable member may have a point and he may not, I am not sure, but the thing is we came here today to talk about the appointment of these people to the boards and these were recommended. I think we should deal with them one at a time and get on with it.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: But the question has to be, Mr. Chairman, if we look at Form "A" and believe that that is the composition of this board, because that is what it says, the composition of the council, and then you are going to vote on some people being alternates and some people being members that do not fit within the composition of the board.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, this has been a very good discussion. Any further discussion?
MR. HOLM: I am not sure if my colleague had made a motion or not, but to move that these appointments be . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: There is already a motion on the floor, that they be considered one at a time.
MR. HOLM: Well, I think that you had said that that was what you had been asked to do, but I thought that . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: No, somebody else made that motion.
MR. HOLM: . . . Helen had asked that they be deferred until the next meeting.
MR. TAYLOR: Could I just have some clarification?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
MR. TAYLOR: In terms of the composition, I haven't got it clear in my mind the composition of the council. I would like somebody to point out where it clearly states, other than what the legislation states, that the composition shall be. Where do I find that? If there is something in there, I would dearly like to see it.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Well, Mr. Chairman, if you remember when we began this process, part of the reason why we revised Form "A", and why we talked about guidelines, was so that we would have a clear understanding of what we were doing in relationship to appointments. I still question how we have, under Form "A", something that talks about the composition of this council and it is contrary to what we are going to do today. That is all I would like to know.
MR. MUIR: I am still confused. Where is it contrary or not consistent?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you ready for the question? I am ready to start.
MR. HOLM: If you look at the front section of your occupational health and safety, the list of members and alternate members, then if you look at . . .
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Look at the present list of people who are staying on.
MR. HOLM: Just before Form "A", two pages ahead, in the back section . . .
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: You see there are 11 regulars and 1 alternate.
MR. TAYLOR: And that is Mr. J.D.R. (Dick) Smyth.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: What we are asked to do today is to appoint 8 alternates and 7 regulars.
MR. HOLM: So, if you add them up, it is not going to match the composition . . .
MR. MUIR: How do you know all those people are regular members?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It says member, member, member, alternate. There is only 1 alternate there.
MR. MUIR: Oh, I take it back.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, you are going to have as many alternates as . . .
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: But they are designated, that is my only question, they are designated.
MR. CHARLES MACDONALD: The council can be changeable. If I read the composition of the council, whether it be appointed, and then the minister is free to select other people over and above.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It says the composition of the council following this round . . .
MR. TAYLOR: What the legislation says is it has to include equal representation from employers and employees. That is the membership of the council. That has been followed. As far as the résumés go, that part has been followed and that is what the legislation states.
MR. HOLM: But it is very clearly stating an incorrect assertion in Form "A" because under members, male and female, it has 9 male members, 5 female, for a total of 14; under alternates, 10 and 4, 14. That is not what will exist. We will end up having 19 and 8, I think it is. That is very different.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: We will have 9 and 18.
MR. HOLM: Plus, we also don't have clarifications on the other things.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: But people are designated as alternates of people.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, they are, for somebody who steps out, yes.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: When you read their résumés, they are designated as alternates for people.
MR. TAYLOR: Let's get on with it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, Mr. Taylor.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, I would make a motion that we adopt the name of Sheldon Andrews as member for the Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion . . .
MR. HOLM: I would like to amend it just to say that that motion and the motion considering the other appointments be considered at the next meeting.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, okay, well, let's vote on his amendment to put these off for another day.
Would all those in favour of putting the Occupational Health and Safety Advisory Council on hold for another day, please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is defeated.
We will carry on. The name of Sheldon Andrews has been nominated.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: If I could ask, he represents management, then, right?
MR. TAYLOR: Sydney Steel, he is management and labour.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: He can't be both.
MR. TAYLOR: Well, did you read the attached letters?
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: I read them.
MR. HOLM: I read it but you can't be both.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: He is management at Sysco so we know what we are doing. We are putting people in management positions in occupational health and safety under labour.
MR. COLWELL: I so move, Gary Bannister.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. CHARLES MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move Christine Birchall as an alternate member.
MR. HOLM: She is representing?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. HOLM: Mr. Chairman, I so move Rick Clarke.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Is he management or labour? Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I so move Grant Hebb.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I so move John Kennedy.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Chairman, I so move Susan Lyle.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I so move Michael MacNeil.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. HOLM: He is also a supervisor, I think.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: He is a supervisor at Sysco. They have two management on the board now.
MR. CHARLES MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move Kenneth Martin.
[2:30 p.m.]
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Chairman, just for clarification, I am still not certain on Mr. Andrews. I don't know Sheldon Andrews but we have a letter signed by the union co-chair endorsing the name of Sheldon Andrews. How can we discern that he is entirely management?
MR. HOLM: That is what really, in part, trying to get clarification from the minister was intended to do.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It was the Director of Human Resources who sent the letter.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes.
MR. CHAIRMAN: We dealt with him.
MR. TAYLOR: No, I know, but I don't think we should be so hasty as to say that he is automatically management when we don't know, and you don't know.
MR. HOLM: That is the kind of thing we are trying to get clarification on. The draft regulations, it is spelled out that there are supposed to be the representatives from labour as well as from the employees or employers. Trying to find out who is supposedly fitting into each category.
MR. TAYLOR: I am sorry, Mr. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN: No problem.
Would all those in favour of Kenneth Martin please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MONTGOMERY: Mr. Chairman, I so move Debbie Ryan.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It should be noted, Mr. Chairman, Debbie Ryan was a regular and now gets moved to an alternate which is a little unusual for boards.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I would like to move her back to a member but that is not what is here.
Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I so move Tom Skinner.
MR. HOLM: Could I ask a question about Tom Skinner, if I may? He is a federal employee and therefore would be under the federal system. I am puzzled why a federal employee . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, vote against him and he won't be on the board. That is all you have to do.
MR. HOLM: Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman . . .
MR. CHAIRMAN: You are welcome.
MR. HOLM: . . . but there might be some other more constructive ways of trying to get some clarifications on points. I raise the question, why is it that somebody who is working and employed and used to dealing under the federal system being appointed to the provincial?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Good question.
MR. TAYLOR: Question.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of Tom Skinner please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is defeated.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move Betty Jean Sutherland.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. CHARLES MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move Gerard C. Tremere.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. COLWELL: Mr. Chairman, I so move Leo van Berkel.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. CHARLES MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I so move M. Frank Wuite.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MUIR: Mr. Chairman, could I point out that I did not see, in that group, any representative from the farming community.
MR. CHAIRMAN: I didn't either.
MR. TAYLOR: I didn't either.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: And the building trades aren't represented.
MR. MUIR: I think when there are going to be at least two vacancies that perhaps this message could be carried back to the minister responsible.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, we have to deal with the waiver of notice request with regard to the Pharmaceutical Society Council. Have you all had an opportunity to think about it and read the covering letters that went with it? If there are any questions, Mr. Spurr is here and he can answer each and every question that you might have as to the reason they feel that . . .
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: The first question would be, we met twice last month, we have gone back over, many times, what the process is. I wonder why this got delayed? I am not speaking against the waiver.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It beats me. This is the first I have seen of it.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: It is amazing how this stuff continues to happen.
MR. MUIR: With a full-time Minister of Health now, this may have been dealt with.
MR. CHAIRMAN: That is a very good point.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: Maybe it is because there were complaints. That is a sad reflection if we have to have something serious happen in this province before ministers act on their responsibilities.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is a very sad commentary.
MR. TAYLOR: The minister does indicate that it is a matter of life and death, and I am going to take him at face value on this one.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Could we have a motion to accept the waiver of notice, and it must be unanimous.
MR. SPURR: May I speak to this one before you take your vote, which is primarily why I am here today. These particular appointments were in the system by way of report and recommendation to the Cabinet, although they entered the system last week. At the time that the documents were moved forward, it would have been quite acceptable for them to move through the system and come to this committee for its January meeting. However, circumstances intervened which required me to firstly pull the report and recommendation back out of the system and advise the minister that one of the options open to him, probably the most suitable one, was to ask this committee to consider the matter today and to waive the usual notice period.
The circumstances are this, that the Pharmaceutical Society finds it necessary to constitute from its membership a discipline committee, to hold a hearing by December 20th in order to preserve its jurisdiction in a matter. If it cannot hold a hearing by December 20th, it will lose jurisdiction over the member of its society that it wants to inquire into it. The particulars are that a member of that society apparently, and this is the question the discipline committee wants to hear, may have mis-prescribed prescription medication resulting in an individual patient presently being in a coma. I believe those facts are in the public domain so I am not telling tales out of school. The society would like to constitute a discipline committee to look into that matter.
It is required, by its own procedures, that discipline committees must be constituted to include lay representatives as opposed to members of the society. Therefore, I retrieved the documents from the system which otherwise would have come before you in January. I constituted this morning a legal quorum of Cabinet to get Cabinet approval for this, following
which I brought the documents over here and made the request on behalf of Dr. Smith for a waiver of notice to have the matter considered today. So that is why it is before you.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any further questions? John Holm.
MR. HOLM: This is not in any way to be obstructionist as to granting the request for waiver. My question goes back a step before that, and he indicated it was planning to come forward in January. We can't always deal, unfortunately, in a situation where an emergency pops up and you have to address it. How long has it been known that these appointments were going to need to be made? We have to be ensured that crucial committees such as this, that we rely upon, are being filled in an orderly way. I guess you can't solve it in all cases, but surely to God we have to be vigilant to make sure that we don't leave ourselves in this kind of a situation. Whether it be with a pharmaceutical, medical or any other kind of body, we have to have the appointments coming forward in a timely manner so that the proper consideration can be given.
MR. SPURR: Your comments are certainly noted and they are valid. The best way I can answer your comment is to tell you, as you will have seen, that it is not unusual, in the usual course of matters, for appointments to come before this committee where some or maybe more than a quorum of a particular board has already expired before they make their way through the system and find their way to this committee. I am not commenting on whether that is good or bad practice on the part of individual departments, but I think in my view it goes to the issue of the requirement now to advertise them to take a look at who the potential candidates are, to move them through the system of Priorities and Planning, through Cabinet and then over here, keeping in mind that this committee meets usually once a month. That is not intended to be a justification for what happens. It is simply intended to be a comment in response to yours.
MS. HELEN MACDONALD: They were advertised in August, though, this board was advertised in August.
MR. SPURR: Yes, they were.
MR. TAYLOR: Can I just ask a question of Mr. Spurr, Mr. Chairman? Just for clarification, is the society under the Pharmacy Act the only body that could impose an emergency suspension, because a couple of times the minister mentions in his letter that it may be necessary to suspend a pharmacist. Does anybody else have that ability, that authority?
MR. SPURR: My understanding would be that only the society, the governing body of licensed pharmacists, could take away the license to practice, if you will, in this case.
MR. TAYLOR: Okay.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of granting the waiver of notice, please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
If you will all sign those waivers, please, because they are not valid unless they have a signature.
Okay, would somebody please move the names?
MR. HOLM: I so move Charles LeBlanc, G. Calvin LeDrew and Cotter Oliver.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Would all those in favour of the motion please say Aye. Contrary minded, Nay.
The motion is carried.
MR. MUIR: The next meeting, Mr. Chairman?
MR. CHAIRMAN: The next meeting will be the very last Tuesday of January which looks to me as though it is probably January 26th. Is that right? Yes, January 26th. We will meet here at 2:00 p.m. None of this 10:00 a.m. business.
We are adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 2:45 p.m.]
