HANSARD
NOVA SCOTIA HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
STANDING COMMITTEE
ON
HEALTH
Tuesday, October 14, 2025
COMMITTEE ROOM
Agenda-Setting
Printed and Published by Nova Scotia Hansard Reporting Services
HEALTH COMMITTEE
John A. MacDonald (Chair)
Adegoke Fadare (Vice-Chair)
Hon. Susan Corkum-Greek
Ryan Robicheau
Nick Hilton
Lisa Lachance
Rod Wilson
Hon. Iain Rankin
Hon. Derek Mombourquette
In Attendance:
Robin Dann
Legislative Committee Clerk
Genevieve Harvey
Legislative Counsel
David McDonald
Legislative Librarian
Heather Ludlow
Information Services Librarian
HALIFAX, TUESDAY, OCTOBER 14, 2025
STANDING COMMITTEE ON HEALTH
1:00 P.M.
CHAIR
John A. MacDonald
VICE-CHAIR
Adegoke Fadare
THE CHAIR: Order. I’m going to call this meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Health. I’m John A. MacDonald, the MLA for Hants East and the chair of the committee. Today will be agenda-setting, but first we’ll have the Legislative Library before we do that. A reminder to set your phones to silent. I don’t need to tell you guys about the microphones because you already know them. I’m going to allow the committee members to introduce themselves for the record by stating their name and constituency, starting with MLA Lachance.
[The committee members introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: And to my left.
GENEVIEVE HARVEY: Genevieve Harvey, legislative counsel.
THE CHAIR: And to my right.
ROBIN DANN: Robin Dann, committee clerk.
THE CHAIR: First thing is the Legislative Library’s research briefings. The librarians are requesting some feedback on the briefings they provide. I’m going to allow them to introduce themselves. Legislative Television, pick whoever you want first.
[The librarians introduced themselves.]
THE CHAIR: Who’s going to start? We’ll start with David.
DAVID MCDONALD: First of all, thank you for entertaining our request to talk to you about our research briefings. We’re basically looking for feedback on anything that we can do to improve them: Do you find them useful? Are there things that you would like to see? - et cetera. I wanted to provide a brief background as to how these came about. Originally, the Legislative Committees Office themselves used to do them, and they created binders with relevant websites and distributed them to the committee members. Twenty years ago, when Heather came aboard, the responsibility shifted to the library. By doing that, we were able to create a one-stop reference for not only the websites, but things in Hansard, things that we might have in our collection that could be relevant to the particular topic. Heather strives very strongly to ensure that you have an unbiased and balanced information package.
In the fall of 2019, we changed that format. It used to be one large PDF with compiled publications; now you have the briefing report that you see today, which is a little bit more work for her, actually, because she has to add a statement on why you might be interested in that document. She has to think a little bit more about whether that document or the links that she’s provided are relevant to your committee topic.
Heather’s informed me that you’ve seen six of these reports since this committee was struck. You have a lot of examples that perhaps you can provide us feedback on. What we’re really looking for is the answers to a few questions: Do you find these reports useful? What do you find useful about them? What don’t you find useful about them? Is there any additional information that we can provide that will help you prepare for the committee meetings better?
We’re looking forward to honest feedback to help us evaluate our services. Basically, we want to make sure that we’re continuing to serve you the best way that we can.
THE CHAIR: Do you want to say anything, Ms. Ludlow, before I pass it over? Ms. Ludlow.
HEATHER LUDLOW: I think I’ll just add that I don’t think you mentioned the information in briefings would all be publicly available information, or information that we have pursued through a government department that is deemed to be public. That could be a limitation on what’s available.
THE CHAIR: Thank you. MLA Mombourquette.
HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I just want to say thanks. In my time that I was here, any time I’ve ever requested anything, whether it was leading up to the Legislature or on the fly if we’re in the House looking for something, the Library has always been really supportive. I don’t have any negative feedback at all. I think it’s great and I really appreciate it. I know that you can have a lot of people coming at you at once at times looking for information. You always do an excellent job, so thank you for that.
THE CHAIR: Anyone else? MLA Corkum-Greek.
HON. SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: In a similar vein to the previous member, just really want to say thank you. In particular, as was mentioned, a succinct synopsis is some of the hardest brain work sometimes. I mean, glad to hear you’re not relying on AI. I think it’s important that we still have human brains that are capable of these things.
Knowing that we were going to be talking about this, I have reflected. Like many resources, we get out of things what we put into things. When time or something causes me to be perhaps lighter on my use of the research packages, that’s my loss. When I have made sure and been purposeful to use them, it is very helpful. Sometimes when you don’t hear anything and you do wonder, that’s why these check-ins are useful. Just speaking as myself, as one member, I really appreciate the work that goes into those packages.
THE CHAIR: Anyone else? MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I think just an all-party endorsement of the services. As you folks know, often I send you very detailed questions and get your help on many subjects, so I’m very appreciative of the work.
THE CHAIR: I want to thank you. Not just this committee - I was on the Public Accounts Committee and, yes, I read those. As Chair, I don’t read them as much because I try to make sure that I focus on the meeting. I do want to thank you for understanding because we were supposed to have you here months ago, but it seems to work - just FYI for others - to do it at agenda-setting because we know we’ll get you in.
Any other questions from anyone? Mr. McDonald.
DAVID MCDONALD: I think we’re good. Thank you very much.
THE CHAIR: Well, thank you very much. What we’ll go next to is agenda-setting. I’m going to look for mine first. There we go. Everybody should have a list of the proposed. We’ll do one at a time - not grouping all together - just to make it easier for discussion. Who’s going to be first? MLA Hilton.
NICK HILTON: We’re moving our . . .
THE CHAIR: Yes, it’s agenda-setting.
NICK HILTON: I move the first topic for the PC caucus be Community Wellness Framework with the following witnesses: representatives from the Office of Addictions and Mental Health.
THE CHAIR: Any discussion on this? MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I know there was a lot of community consultation and work to develop the Community Wellness Framework, so I wonder if there are any other stakeholders whom it might be fruitful to invite?
NICK HILTON: Not at this time, no.
THE CHAIR: Okay. Any other discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
Next, MLA Robicheau. I don’t know why I had a problem with that. Sorry.
RYAN ROBICHEAU: That’s all right. I’ve been called worse, Chair. (Laughter)
I move that the second topic for the PC caucus be Brotherhood and Sisterhood Programs with the following witnesses: representatives from the Nova Scotia Health Authority.
THE CHAIR: Any discussion? MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: These programs are really - the key to their success is being integrated with community, community organizations, locations, and leaders. I’m wondering if there’s anyone else - partners in the delivery of those two programs - who would be beneficial to invite as well?
RYAN ROBICHEAU: We’d like to keep the witness list to just the reps from the Nova Scotia Health Authority in order to keep a very focused discussion.
THE CHAIR: Any other discussion? MLA Wilson.
ROD WILSON: I would just add to my colleague’s - I think it’s very short and somewhat insulting to not invite the community members who are directly impacted by this, versus just the Department of Health and Wellness employees. Again, to emphasize - given these programs, the community representatives and community delivery of the program should be heard.
THE CHAIR: All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
Who’s next? MLA Corkum-Greek.
SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: I move that the third topic for the PC caucus be Early Years Programs from Public Health, with the following witnesses: representatives from the Nova Scotia Health Authority, Marcia DeSantis, senior director of Population and Public Health for the Nova Scotia Health Authority, and Flora Murphy, manager of Early Years Public Health, Science and Systems Performance for the Nova Scotia Health Authority.
THE CHAIR: Any questions? Discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
Who’s next? MLA Wilson.
ROD WILSON: We have several programs we’d like to speak to. One is the Seniors’ and Family Pharmacare Programs.
THE CHAIR: The witnesses would be?
ROD WILSON: The Department of Health and Wellness, the deputy minister; CARP Nova Scotia; the Pharmacy Association of Nova Scotia; representatives from the North End Community Health Centre; and Caregivers Nova Scotia.
THE CHAIR: Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Wilson again.
ROD WILSON: Again, we’d like to discuss Emergency Department Closures, and operations. On that note and to learn more, we’d like to invite the Department of Health and Wellness deputy minister; the Nova Scotia Health Authority interim president and CEO, Karen Oldfield; and most importantly, the vice-president of medicine, Dr. Nicole Boutilier.
THE CHAIR: Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: We’d like to bring forward for our topic Improving Women’s Health in Nova Scotia, with the witnesses being the Nova Scotia Health Authority, the IWK Health Centre, and the IWK Health Foundation.
THE CHAIR: Any discussion?
MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I’m wondering about a friendly amendment to talk about the health of women and gender-diverse Nova Scotians as the title - as rounding out? So it would be Improving the Health of Women and Gender-Diverse Nova Scotians.
THE CHAIR: Okay, so it’s just to change the title?
LISA LACHANCE: Yes.
THE CHAIR: I’m just making sure we don’t need a motion.
Does everybody agree with the friendly amendment?
Perfect. We don’t need a motion. Thank you, MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I have another one.
THE CHAIR: On this specific one? Okay. MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I know that at our last session, we had been contacted by someone with lived experience in the Nova Scotia health system with regard to her breast cancer diagnosis and treatment, Ms. Kim White, who had hoped to come and appear before the committee. I would move that Kim White be added as a witness to that section.
THE CHAIR: The motion is to add Kim White as a witness.
LISA LACHANCE: Although apparently it might be a friendly amendment, so we might not need to . . .
[1:15 p.m.]
THE CHAIR: I think that one we’re might have to vote, because I think a friendly change in the title - any discussion on this?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The amendment is carried.
On the amended motion - everybody ready?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
That’s it for this piece. Going back to the agenda, we have a deferred NDP motion from the September 9th meeting. I’m going to have the clerk read it. I think the proper way is for the clerk to read what the motion is. Is it? (Interruption) I’m sorry. The clerk informed me that it’s for MLA Wilson to reread it, not me or the clerk. Do you have it in front of you? If you don’t, I can get it to you. MLA Wilson.
ROD WILSON: I’ll put forward again the motion:
Whereas breast cancer is the most common type of cancer impacting women and accounts for 25 percent of all new cancer cases each year; and
Whereas the care women without family doctors are receiving for their breast cancer is fragmented because the health care system in Nova Scotia was not built for patients to navigate on their own; and
Whereas Nova Scotians with breast cancer deserve better care from this government;
Therefore I move that the Standing Committee on Health urgently write to the Department of Health and Wellness requesting a comprehensive plan outlining concrete steps that will be taken to close gaps in breast cancer care.
THE CHAIR: Is there any discussion on this? MLA Corkum-Greek.
SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: At our last meeting, this was provided as a late notice, and we were dealing with it on the fly. We did run out of time before we had a vote. Now, having had time to think about this, I want to make clear that we absolutely recognize the importance of improving breast cancer care. I have had members of my own family who I have lost to this disease, and another member who survived on the basis of early detection and the best of care at that time.
But given the considerable progress our government has made on this issue, requesting a separate plan, we feel, would be duplicating existing efforts and would detract from the work taking place and the ability to give some time to advancements such as the new nurse navigator program. Also, the breast screening program itself continues to be strengthened, expanding outreach to encourage screening and automatic recall of individuals with category D dense breasts. The IWK Health Centre also recently announced a new breast health research unit supported by the J&W Murphy Foundation. We have to give these efforts time to mature.
That said, I think that accepting the friendly amendment of an addition on the topic of women’s health will give us an opportunity to hear a first-hand story, ensuring that, as members of government, we always see the people and not simply the problem. It’s for those reasons that we will be voting against the motion.
THE CHAIR: MLA Mombourquette.
DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I just want to say a few words that we’re, of course, in favour of the motion as presented by the NDP caucus. It’s something that I think the more conversation we can have as a committee, as policy makers, the better. I obviously think of my friend and former colleague, Rafah DiCostanzo and the advocacy that she has done with advocates across the province, coming to the Legislature to talk about early detection for women with dense breasts. I think that this conversation needs to continue. I think that similar to other topics outside of health, the more opportunity we have as committee members to hear the lived experience and hear from experts and give, as my colleague from the PC caucus said - if there are new programs being implemented by the government, then let’s hear about them at the committee level. We are totally in favour of supporting the motion put forward by the NDP caucus.
THE CHAIR: MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: I’ll just speak quickly in favour of the spirit of the motion, then I have a proposed amendment that might make it more acceptable for everyone.
We have heard so much from advocates and people who are concerned about access to breast cancer detection and care. I think we all received - there’s an ongoing effort from advocates and stakeholders right now writing letters. I know I’ve received 30-plus letters in the last couple of weeks advocating for increasing dense breast detection and care in this province. I think we all share the commitment to addressing this issue. I wouldn’t doubt that.
I guess what I’m wondering is would it be more amenable to request an update outlining the concrete steps that are being taken? I appreciate MLA Corkum-Greek’s outline of some of the things that are happening, but as per MLA Mombourquette’s comments, it would be great to have that all in one place. Not asking the department to do extra work, just asking them to tell us what’s currently going on.
THE CHAIR: Before I go on, I just want to make sure I have your intent of your motion which would be: I move that - just this portion - the Standing Committee on Health urgently write to the Department of Health and Wellness requesting an update on outlining concrete steps that are being taken to close gaps in breast cancer care.
LISA LACHANCE: Yes.
THE CHAIR: Just want to make sure we have it. MLA Wilson, you were on before the motion so I’m going to let you speak to it.
ROD WILSON: Just in support of my colleague’s amended motion, we’re not really looking for fault, we’re looking to better understand. Constituents are asking and they have educated me that there are different standards across the country. What’s done in B.C. is not being done in Nova Scotia. Why is that? I have great respect for Dr. Siân Iles and the mammography program.
To my other colleagues, we’re really just looking to better understand what is being done, why there are differences, and what the future looks like. It’s really a fact-finding information based on a constituent asking, “Why is it this in Nova Scotia? Why in B.C.?” and I can’t answer those questions. It would really help us inform the conversation with constituents as to hearing what’s being done and what the future looks like.
THE CHAIR: Any other discussion? MLA Corkum-Greek.
SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: I will speak personally at this point. I think that this is an amenable amendment. We’re contrasting this to the original motion asking for a comprehensive plan, and that is part of what made it difficult when we are piloting. We know there will always be more to do, but it is absolutely fair and I think valuable to get that update and be able to turn to Nova Scotians. We are not unmoved by the stories of those facing this really terrible disease and facing it at different stages which put them - which significantly, in some cases, changed their odds of surviving the disease.
THE CHAIR: MLA Fadare.
ADEGOKE FADARE: I think it’s a very important conversation. It’s one that even within my constituency, we’ve been having the conversation. I also recognize that the topic that the NDP has brought to the table offers us the opportunity to also have the conversations, to be able to have witnesses. I think one of the people you had mentioned was someone who had a lived experience. To be able to speak about that and also to be able to have the opportunity for the department to speak regarding what they’re also doing, I think that’s already in play. That’s what I personally think.
It’s a very important conversation, and I think there’s no one who will not be heard. I don’t think that we’re running away as a committee from having these conversations. That’s what I’ll say at this juncture.
LISA LACHANCE: I guess I would just really appeal to folks to consider that what we’re asking for is an overview of what’s on the go and what’s happening in a way that we can be better informed as MLAs and members of this committee.
I won’t speak to all that the Liberals had envisioned in their topic around improving the health of women and gender-diverse folks in Nova Scotia. Breast cancer is certainly part of it, but that’s not all of it. There are a lot of other issues.
We will get some sense of what’s happening in the health care system from that topic, but specifically, we’re looking for information on what’s happening in the government right now and what steps Nova Scotia is taking. We know there’s lots of work being done. Why hide it?
THE CHAIR: Any other discussion?
We’re way ahead. Do you want to vote on this or do you want to take a quick recess?
We’re going to have a three-minute recess. We’re in recess.
[1:26 p.m. The committee recessed.]
[1:28 p.m. The committee reconvened.]
THE CHAIR: Order. We’ll call the meeting to order.
Any other discussion? We’re going to vote on the amendment.
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The amendment is carried.
Now we’re going to deal with the amended motion. Any discussion?
MLA Corkum-Greek.
SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK: Chair, I do like to hear the amended motion before I vote, just so my brain is clear.
THE CHAIR: Since the amendment was brought by MLA Lachance, I want to read what I think it should be. Did you want me to reread mine, or did you want - my vote was on as long as we were exactly what you needed it to say. I’m saying it’s really your motion, MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: The final - after: therefore requesting an update outlining . . .
THE CHAIR: For clarity, let’s do the whole motion with the changes. That way everybody has a thing onto it and we don’t have somebody saying it sounds. I apologize. MLA Lachance.
LISA LACHANCE: Therefore I move that the Standing Committee on Health urgently write to the Department of Health and Wellness requesting an update outlining the concrete steps that are being taken to close gaps in breast cancer care.
THE CHAIR: That is the amendment only to the third paragraph. The first two paragraphs are still intact and not changed; the first two “Whereas” are still intact. I just want to make sure the minutes show what it is.
Any other discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried.
The next item is the approval of the annual report. I know the clerk sent everybody out an email asking if there are any errors or omissions in the report. You okay for me to sign it? Then somebody needs to put a motion forward to move that the report be tabled in the House.
MLA Hilton.
NICK HILTON: I’ll move the tabling of the report.
[1:30 p.m.]
THE CHAIR: Any discussion?
All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.
The motion is carried, which I’ll sign as soon as I’m finished the last piece of this, which is the meeting in November.
We have said it’s going to be November 13th. As we all know, the House is not sitting in November. It will be 1:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. The witnesses and the item are to be determined. The clerk will find somebody to schedule and let everybody know.
Everybody good? Anything I forgot? No. Guess what? The meeting is adjourned.
[The committee adjourned at 1:30 p.m.]
