HALIFAX, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2025

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Sixty-fifth General Assembly

First Session

1:00 P.M.

SPEAKER

Hon. Danielle Barkhouse

DEPUTY SPEAKERS

John White, Marco MacLeod, Tom Taggart

THE SPEAKER » : Order. We will begin the daily routine.

PRESENTING AND READING PETITIONS

PRESENTING REPORTS OF COMMITTEES

TABLING REPORTS, REGULATIONS AND OTHER PAPERS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid.

PAUL WOZNEY « » : I beg leave to table a report entitled Capital Plan 2023-24, published by the Province of Nova Scotia.

THE SPEAKER « » : The report is tabled.

The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid.

PAUL WOZNEY « » : I beg leave to table a report entitled Capital Plan 2024-25, published by the Province of Nova Scotia.

THE SPEAKER « » : The report is tabled.

STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS

GOVERNMENT NOTICES OF MOTION

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill No. 36 - An Act Respecting Free Trade and Mobility Within Canada. (Hon. Tim Houston, Premier)

Bill No. 37 - An Act to Establish a Mental Health Bill of Rights. (Lisa Lachance)

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Bill No. 38 - An Act to Amend Chapter 31 of the Acts of 1996, the Sales Tax Act, Respecting Children's Essentials. (Hon. Iain Rankin)

Bill No. 39 - An Act Respecting the Creation of a Provincial Ambulance Service. (Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin)

Bill No. 40 - An Act to Establish the Agriculture and Food Security Secretariat. (Krista Gallagher)

Bill No. 41 - An Act to Implement a Guaranteed Basic Income Pilot Project. (Hon. Iain Rankin)

Bill No. 42 - An Act to Establish a Cross-border Emergency Ambulance Services Strategy. (Elizabeth Smith-McCrossin)

THE SPEAKER: Ordered that these bills be read a second time on a future day.

NOTICES OF MOTION

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Preston.

BLACK CULTURAL CTR.: GALA - RECOG.

HON. TWILA GROSSE « » : I rise today to recognize the Black Cultural Society of Nova Scotia and the Black Cultural Centre under Executive Director Russell Grosse for hosting the 2025 African Heritage Month Gala on February 22^nd at the Halifax Convention Centre.

This event welcomed more than 1,200 attendees, the largest gathering to date hosted at the Halifax Convention Centre. It was sold out two weeks prior. The gala was a vibrant showcase of Black arts and culture, featuring African Canadian talent and the incomparable Reeny Smith, who hails from the largest historic African Nova Scotian community of North Preston. The theme for the gala, Woven in Unity, which spoke to the power of connection and the strength that comes when we stand not just beside one another but for one another, was evident at the event.

I ask all members of the Legislature to join me in commending and congratulating the Black Cultural Centre and Society on an unforgettable and amazing event. Legacy in Action.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

LISA LACHANCE « » : Speaker, I beg leave to make an introduction relative to my member statement.

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THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

LISA LACHANCE « » : In the gallery today, we are joined by Keegan McGregor, Colleen Brown, and Patrick Fulgencio, and I'd ask them to rise and send them a warm welcome from the House. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome to the People's House. We hope you enjoy your time here.

The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

MCGREGOR, KEEGAN: BARTENDER TITLE WIN - CONGRATS.

LISA LACHANCE « » : I rise today to recognize the accomplishments of Keegan McGregor, who this fall took home the title of World Class Global Bartender of the Year award. Keegan has been behind the bar crafting cocktails for about 15 years, and his dedication to his craft is shown in his accomplishments. The World Class Bartender competitions are designed to showcase five key characteristics of a world-class bartender: hosting, craft, flavour analysis, knowledge, and world-class advocacy. Contestants demonstrate their experience in seven unique challenges across a three-day competition.

Last March, Keegan competed for and won the title of Canada's world-class bartender here in Halifax and went on to win the world title in Shanghai. When Keegan isn't representing Canada on the global stage, he works at the Highwayman on Barrington right here in Halifax Citadel-Sable Island. Please join me in congratulating Keegan McGregor on this well-deserved award. Cheers to Keegan McGregor and beautifully crafted cocktails.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

TEAM PURCELL: CURLING NATIONALS PARTIC. - BEST WISHES

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : I rise today to recognize Nova Scotia provincial men's curling champions who are off to Kelowna for the 2025 Montana's Brier. I want to wish the best of look to skip Owen Purcell, third Luke Saunders, second Scott Saccary, lead Ryan Abraham, and coach Colleen Jones. The tournament gets started next week, and I know all members of this House and all Nova Scotians will join me in wishing Team Purcell good luck and good curling as they represent our province on the national stage.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Premier.

HON. TIM HOUSTON (The Premier) « » : I beg leave to make a couple of introductions . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

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THE PREMIER « » : . . . before I make my member statement. Great. Thank you very much. In your gallery, we have some members of our manufacturing business leaders in the manufacturing community in this province. I'd ask them to stand as I say their name maybe: Darren Czech, Cameron Haygarth, Sheldon Gouthro, and Billy Freeman, all with us today. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here today. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome. We hope you enjoy your time here and thank you for your contribution to this province.

The honourable Premier.

U.S. TARIFFS: NEED FOR ACTION - RECOG.

THE PREMIER « » : Likewise, I thank you. You collectively employ thousands of Nova Scotians, supporting Nova Scotian families, and thank you for that. We appreciate your commitment to our province.

I rise today to express my deep concern over the challenges faced by our province's manufacturing sector due to the threat of American tariffs. For decades, manufacturing has been the backbone of our economy, creating jobs, driving innovation, and supporting economic stability. Yet the escalating trade tensions and tariff threats are now putting this critical sector at risk.

In response to the recent threat of U.S. tariffs, our province has taken decisive action to protect Nova Scotians. We were the first to issue a statement and implement retaliatory measures, and additionally, we have launched a tariff hotline to assist companies in navigating these challenges.

Recognizing the importance of a unified approach, I have actively participated in round table discussions and led efforts to support a "Team Canada" strategy. Recently, I attended meetings in Washington, where it was made clear to decision-makers that tariffs harming the people of other nations will also harm those of ours. Both nations will be impacted by these unnecessary and counterproductive tariffs, and today we will continue to lead the way in abolishing interprovincial trade barriers - an important step. But this moment is a call to action - a call to build a more independent and resilient economy, and I will continue to fight for the best interests of Nova Scotians.

[1:15 p.m.]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : I beg leave to make an introduction.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

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SUSAN LEBLANC « » : In the gallery opposite, may I introduce the House to two very important people: Ronnie Harris, from Dartmouth North, and his girlfriend, Mariah Connolly. I have recognized Ronnie in this House before for his volunteerism in our community, but I have yet to recognize his athletic accomplishments, and that's what I'm going to do today. I would ask the House to give Ronnie and Mariah a warm welcome, please. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome to the House of the People. We hope you enjoy your time here.

The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

HARRIS, RONNIE: ATHLETIC ACHIEVEMENTS - CONGRATS.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : I rise today to congratulate an extremely well-rounded and respected young community member and athlete in Dartmouth North: Ronnie Harris. Ronnie brings the same level of dedication to the football field as he does his community, and that hard work has paid off.

Recently, the Saint Mary's Huskies football team announced that the Grade 12 student will be a member of their offensive line for the 2025-26 season. I was not surprised to learn that Ronnie was one of the standout local talents of the 2025 class, having worked alongside Ronnie on several of my election campaigns. He started volunteering when he was very young. I have also experienced Ronnie's work ethic firsthand. No door goes unknocked when Ronnie is canvassing.

The Saint Mary's Huskies certainly are lucky to have Ronnie on their team, and Dartmouth North is lucky and proud of this most recent accomplishment. I ask the House to join me in congratulating Ronnie on entering the next stage of his athletic and academic career.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland North.

INTERPROV. TRADE BARRIERS: NEED FOR REMOVAL - RECOG.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : I want to stand and say how grateful I am on behalf of the people I represent to see the bill that the Premier has tabled today and to hear his most recent member statement. I look forward to working with this government and with everyone who's going to be looking to remove these interprovincial barriers.

Just last night, the Minister of Advanced Education verified that this government is not going to remove an interprovincial barrier for our nurses who study only 10 minutes away in New Brunswick. This is one example of a change that they can make that is currently a barrier between our two provinces. People who produce meat in Cumberland County cannot export across the border into New Brunswick or PEI. There are so many interprovincial barriers.

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I just want to applaud the government for looking at this and making it an issue. I look forward to working with them to remove all these unnecessary barriers.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cole Harbour.

HON. LEAH MARTIN « » : Speaker, before I begin my statement, I beg leave to make an introduction.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

LEAH MARTIN « » : What an honour it is: In the gallery, I am pleased to introduce the Irish Rovers. (Standing ovation)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome to the House of the People. Your singing earlier was beautiful. Hopefully, you'll enjoy this serenade down here today. (Laughter)

The honourable member for Cole Harbour.

IRISH ROVERS: 60 YRS. OF ENTERTAINMENT - THANKS

HON. LEAH MARTIN « » : Speaker, the Irish Rovers are a group of Irish Canadian music icons who have been touring internationally to widespread acclaim for over 60 years. During that time, the Irish Rovers have represented Canada at five world expos and have graced our television screens on channels such as CBS and PBS. Most recently, their song "Hey Boys Sing Us a Song" was nominated for Single of the Year at the Canadian Folk Music Awards.

In addition, the Irish Rovers are touring once more this year and can be seen on stages across Canada, the U.S., Australia, and New Zealand. The tour celebrates 60 years since the band played 22 sold-out weeks at the Purple Onion in San Francisco. I ask all members of the Legislature to join me in celebrating the Irish Rovers and thanking them for over 60 years of entertainment. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

LISA LACHANCE « » : Speaker, I beg leave to make an introduction relative to my member statement.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

LISA LACHANCE « » : I would like to welcome Brian Skabar back to the Legislature with his partner, Claire Hamilton, and his daughter, Lauren Skabar. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome. We hope you enjoy your time here.

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The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

SKABAR, BRIAN: FORMER MLA - BIRTHDAY WISHES

LISA LACHANCE « » : I rise today to wish Brian Skabar a very happy 73^rd birthday. Once the MLA for Cumberland North, Brian is now happily retired and enjoys spending time with his grandchildren, playing as much pickleball as possible, and, of course, watching Legislative TV. Speaker, I ask all members to join me in wishing Brian a happy birthday. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

CAMPAIGN WORKERS: EFFORT - RECOG.

HON. IAIN RANKIN « » : I rise to extend my gratitude and recognition to Peter Bragg, campaign manager, and our team's election day co-captains, Catherine Pinks and Diana Thorpe, who served with unwavering dedication during the last provincial election. The hard work, dedication, and efforts of volunteers such as Peter, Cathy, and Diana cannot be overstated. They are the lifeblood of any successful campaign, and their efforts were invaluable.

From organizing and scheduling an extensive list of daily activities required to run a campaign, to endless hours of phone calls, collecting and entering data, and knocking on hundreds of doors, they left no stone unturned in their mission to mobilize the electorate. Their ability to connect with voters played a vital role in driving voter turnout and fostering a sense of civic duty within the community. They brought a positive energy and a sense of community to the campaign, making it possible to reach and engage a wide audience.

I'd like the members of the House of Assembly to join me in thanking Peter, Cathy, and Diana for their tireless dedication to engage and motivate voters and their commitment to the campaign. Their leadership exemplifies the true spirit of volunteerism, and I am grateful for their hard work and for the invaluable role they played during my campaign.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River.

HON. DAVE RITCEY « » : Speaker, I beg leave to make an introduction before I begin my statement.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

DAVE RITCEY « » : In the gallery, I am honoured to introduce Miriah and Dave Kearney, who own and operate Seek Wilderness Accommodations. Dave and Miriah, I would ask you to please rise and accept this gracious welcome to the House. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome to the House. We hope you enjoy your time here.

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The honourable member for Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River.

SEEK WILDERNESS ACCOMMODATIONS: ANNIV. - CONGRATS.

HON. DAVE RITCEY « » : I rise today to congratulate Miriah and Dave Kearney of Truro on the one-year anniversary of Seek Wilderness Accommodations. Over the past year, they have created a remarkable and innovative space where guests can reconnect with nature while enjoying comfort and tranquility. The Kearneys' dedication to providing unique, eco-friendly experiences has not only enriched the local tourism landscape but also inspired countless visitors to embrace the beauty of the wilderness. Truro is lucky to have such a gem that showcases the charm of Nova Scotia's outdoors, and this milestone is a testament to their hard work, vision, and passion for hospitality.

I ask all members of the House to join me in celebrating Dave and Miriah's first year of success and wish them many more years of growth and adventure ahead. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Armdale.

SAMPSON, BETTY: 99^TH BIRTHDAY - BEST WISHES

ROD WILSON « » : I rise today to recognize Betty Sampson, a long-time resident of Halifax Armdale, who turned 99 years old on February 24^th. Betty has lived her whole life in Halifax, including a few years in Chester, and raised her family in the beautiful West End. She lives on Bayers Road and up until a few years ago, would walk to Mumford Road to get groceries and for errands, no matter what her children said.Halifaxz

It's hard to imagine a more devoted mother, grandmother, or sister than Betty. With ten children, over 40 grandchildren and great-grandchildren, three siblings, and many nieces and nephews, this is no mean feat. Betty and her late husband, Clyde Henry Sampson, were dedicated to giving back to the community and helped organize the annual Fireman's Ball in Halifax for many years.

I ask all members of the House to join me in wishing Betty a very happy 99^th birthday. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland-North.

SKABAR, BRIAN: FORMER MLA - BIRTHDAY WISHES

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : I, too, want to acknowledge our guests in the Chamber today, and I have a funny story I want to share. We often hear how, here in Nova Scotia, it's not six degrees of separation; it's one or two. Back in the day, when I was more active in party politics, I remember someone asking me, here in Halifax, if I would happen to know former MLA Brian Skabar. They were wondering if he was going to run in the federal election. I said, Well, I know Brian. I just invited him to join Rotary. His daughter is dating one of my sons, and his son Tom is coaching basketball for two of my other sons. It's a small world, and we are all connected here in Nova Scotia.

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I want to take a moment, on his birthday especially, to thank Mr. Skabar for serving the people of Cumberland North and for serving the people of Nova Scotia. It's an honour to have you here in this Legislature. Happy birthday. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : You are quite the popular birthday boy today.

The honourable member for Lunenburg West.

HON. BECKY DRUHAN « » : Before I begin my statement, I beg leave to make an introduction.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

BECKY DRUHAN « » : In the gallery I'm honoured to introduce Sandy Mair-Dodman, an amazing constituency assistant for Lunenburg West and the family: Alex Dodman, Jared Dodman, and Melanie Halliday. I hope they accept a gracious welcome from the House. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome to the House of the People. We hope you enjoy your time here.

The honourable member for Lunenburg West.

DODMAN, DONALD ALBERT: DEATH OF - TRIBUTE

HON. BECKY DRUHAN « » : I rise today to honour and remember Donald Albert Dodman, a loving father, devoted husband, and kind and generous community member. Don was a well-known and well-loved presence in recreation. Welcoming people to sport was both his profession and his passion.

A die-hard Maple Leafs fan, Don shared his love of hockey by generously volunteering as a coach, from his boys' minor hockey to Bantam AAA to the Nova Scotia U18 Major Hockey League and the Maritime Junior Hockey League. He was also an official for more than 25 years and a mentor to so many. As well, Don served as President of the South Shore Minor Hockey Association.

As the manager of the Michelin Social & Athletic Club in Bridgewater, Don's hospitality built an inclusive community, inspiring people young and old with warmth and enthusiasm. Don never missed the chance to give words or encouragement or do anything he could to make the lives of others better. Missed dearly, Don's tender heart, generous spirit and love of life continue to encourage and inspire our community. Speaker, I ask all of the House to join us in a moment of silence recognizing Don Dodman.

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[A moment of silence was observed.]

THE SPEAKER « » : Please be seated.

The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

AOEGAMES: LOCAL BUSINESS - RECOG.

LINA HAMID « » : I rise to recognize AOEgames, or Art Over Everything Games, a family-owned business creating one of a kind, customized board games that can be used as a fundraising tool or an engaging way of sharing a message. Owned and operated by Fairview residents Rick Berger and Holly Hynes, they have created a catalogue of over 13 engaging and totally unique board games. Players can decide to take a slapshot with the hockey-themed game Puck, make wagers on what friends know with the game Useless Information, or take an adventure starting in the beautiful Cape Breton with the game of Brodie the Bras d'Orosaurus Goes Traveling. Founded in memory of Ian Perry-Berger, an art, music and boardgame lover who was a son, proceeds are used to fundraise in Ian's memory for the performing arts and other contributions and sponsorships. Please join me in celebrating this unique business.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

WAYE, JANICE: CONSTITUENCY ASSISTANT - RECOG.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : I rise in my place - I try to do this every session; I know she is watching right now, and she really loves the attention - Janice Waye, my constituency assistant. I always like to rise and recognize her because she has been my constituency assistant for 10 years now. She was also Manning MacDonald's for his entire career.

She has been helping the residents of Sydney and beyond for over 30 years now as a constituency assistant, which I would say is probably one of the longest-serving constituency assistants - and she's only 40. She's watching this now. Wait until I put it on Facebook later. She's really going to love it, Speaker.

I rise in my place to recognize Janice Waye-Garrab. Many people know her husband, Joe Waye, the jazz guitar player. I recognize Janice for over 30 years of service to this province, helping thousands and thousands of people over her career.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sackville-Uniacke.

OLIVER, CALVIN PERLEY: DEATH OF - TRIBUTE

HON. BRAD JOHNS « » : I rise today to express my condolences to my constituency assistant, Regan, on the recent passing of his father, Perley Calvin Oliver after a valiant and hard-fought battle with cancer. Perley was the devoted husband to the love of his life Carol, a father, grandfather, and friend. Although someone who rarely said the words "I love you," he demonstrated daily just how deeply he cared for his family through his many thoughtful and selfless actions. Before retirement, Perley was employed with CN Railway Company for 35 years where he held a variety of positions. A skilled draftsman, he not only designed his own home, but the homes of many of his family members as well.

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Perley was a warm, friendly person who could strike up a meaningful conversation with just about anyone. A faithful member of his church and the Lucasville community, he would always be the first to offer help to someone in need and was a rock for all his extended family.

I know he will be greatly missed by all those who knew and loved him.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

[1:30 p.m.]

CULTURE OF GROWING: BLACK YOUTH PGM. - RECOG.

KENDRA COOMBES « » : Speaker, I rise to recognize Imhotep's Legacy Academy's Culture of Growing (COG), an agricultural initiative that engages African Nova Scotian youth in Grades 5 to 12. The Whitney Pier community member and regional COG coordinator, Marie Green, has led the project, and Menelik Hall hosted the greenhouse.

COG focuses on developing agriculture and food security, knowledge, and skills in African Nova Scotian youth. Participants learn about seed selection, effective soil preparation, fertilization, harvesting techniques, watering systems, entrepreneurship, and practical food production. As part of the gardening entrepreneurship model, students learn how to take their harvest, market it, and brand it. Their produce was sold at a lower cost to create accessibility for all community folks.

In September, COG participants sold their modest harvest, which included many things such as green peppers, eggplants, and squash. I want to thank Marie Green for all of her hard work.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

WEXLER, BOAZ: MUSICAL TALENT - RECOG.

HON. IAIN RANKIN « » : I want to recognize a remarkable talent, Boaz Wexler. Last Fall, Boaz shared his beautiful voice and musical talent at the Halifax West Multicultural Festival by singing "Eli Eli," a moving phrase from the Hebrew Bible. His performance was not only a testament to his vocal prowess, but also a profound expression of his cultural heritage.

Canada is a nation that thrives on its diversity, and we are fortunate to live in a country where differences are not only accepted but celebrated. The Halifax West Multicultural Festival is a shining example of this celebration, bringing together people from various backgrounds to showcase their unique traditions, music, and art.

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Schools play a vital role in highlighting and showcasing the talents and cultural richness of their students. It is commendable when educational institutions create platforms for students to express their heritage, as it fosters a deeper understanding and appreciation among their peers.

I would ask that the members of the House of Assembly join me in congratulating Boaz for enriching our community with his Jewish heritage. His dedication to sharing his culture and talent with us is truly inspiring.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Speaker, before I begin, I beg leave to make an introduction.

THE SPEAKER « » : Please do.

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: In the gallery today, I'm pleased to introduce Chris Gourley, founder and president of Summit Vehicle Storage, and Jo-Anne McLean, head of growth and partnerships at Summit Airport Parking. Chris and Jo-Anne, I ask you both to rise and accept the very warm welcome from members of this Legislature. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : Welcome to the House. We hope you enjoy your time here.

The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

GOURLEY, CHRIS: SUMMIT VEHICLE STORAGE - RECOG.

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I rise today to recognize Chris Gourley, the founder and president of Summit Vehicle Storage, for his outstanding contributions to business development in Nova Scotia.

In 2007, Chris saw an opportunity to transform his family's unused barns in Stewiacke into a vehicle storage facility. Starting with 10 stored campers, Summit Vehicle Storage now accommodates more than 500 vehicles and serves clients from across Canada, the United States, and Europe. In 2024, Chris expanded his vision further by launching Summit Airport Parking near the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, offering off-airport parking, shuttle services, and full-service vehicle maintenance, including detailing, oil changes, and even snow removal.

Chris built his business on innovation, customer service, and strategic growth. Despite the global pandemic, Summit Vehicle Storage thrived, demonstrating resilience. His leadership was recognized with the Outstanding Innovation and Entrepreneurship Award from the Family Business Association Atlantic. Chris's success story is a testament to the power of entrepreneurship.

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Needham.

LUCY'S HYDROSTONE CAFÉ: LOCAL BUSINESS - RECOG.

SUZY HANSEN « » : Speaker, I rise today to recognize a café that is not a stranger to our Hydrostone community: Lucy's Hydrostone Café. Formerly Julien's Patisserie, Lucy's Hydrostone Café continues to serve the Hydrostone community with freshly baked bread, mouthwatering pastries, and the finest brewed coffee. Even though it is under new ownership, the excitement to uphold a legacy that has been cherished for nearly 30 years is prevalent. You feel it in the warmth and the charm - it's still there.

I invite all members to join me in thanking the owners and staff of Lucy's. If you're in the Hydrostone area, please drop by and grab yourself a treat.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Atlantic.

SCHOOL SUPPORT STAFF: DEDICATION - THANKS

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE: Speaker, today I rise in this House to express my sincere gratitude to thousands of ECEs, bus drivers, pre-Primary, custodians, and all the dedicated support staff who work tirelessly in our schools. These individuals are essential to the well-being of our schools and the future of our children. They are among the most hard-working and kind-hearted people you will ever meet. I am fortunate to know many friends who serve in these roles, and I deeply admire their dedication and commitment. As an MLA, a minister, and a father, I want to take this moment to say: Thank you. Your efforts do not go unnoticed, and please know that you are valued, respected, and truly appreciated.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

BROOKLYN WAREHOUSE: CLOSURE - RECOG.

KRISTA GALLAGHER « » : Speaker, I rise today to recognize the legacy of the Brooklyn Warehouse, a trailblazer in local food and sustainability. Since opening in 2007, the father-son founded restaurant has produced nationally recognized award-winning cuisine. In 2014, Brooklyn Warehouse was recognized at the Taste of Nova Scotia Prestige Awards as the casual fine dining restaurant of the year. Through the creation of their simple, honest menu, Brooklyn Warehouse aims to showcase the abundance of riches that Nova Scotia has to offer. Working with rural producers, local markets, and regional suppliers, they strive to embody farm-to-table practices to celebrate local chefs and farmers.

This morning, Brooklyn Warehouse announced their plans to close their doors at the end of March. I ask the members present to please join me in expressing my appreciation to the Brooklyn Warehouse for advancing the conversation around local food and the slow food movement and encouraging patrons to consider the origins of what ends up on their plates. Brooklyn Warehouse will be deeply missed. I hope that other restaurants will continue what George and Leo Christakos began.

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Kings West.

BALSOR, RICK: COM. SERV. - RECOG.

CHRIS PALMER: Speaker, I rise today to recognize Rick Balsor of Aylesford, a dedicated entrepreneur and pillar of the community. Rick's small business ventures have not only contributed to the economy of the area but have showcased his unwavering commitment to our region's well-being.

Since 1990, Rick has successfully operated Rick Balsor Welding, doing custom welding, fabrication, and repair. Rick also added snowplow sales and repair and auto sales to his business. Rick demonstrates an exceptional work ethic and innovative spirit. His ventures have created local jobs, supported other businesses, and strengthened our local economy. His approach to business exemplifies resilience, adaptability, and a deep understanding of our community's needs.

Beyond his entrepreneurial achievements, Rick is known for his generosity and his community spirit. He is a steadfast supporter of local events, charities, and initiatives, always ready to lend a hand and provide resources.

I ask all members of this House to join me in celebrating Rick Balsor's significant contributions to both business and community in Aylesford and beyond. His passion, dedication, and hard work are truly appreciated.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid.

SACKVILLE LEAFS: HOCKEY TOURN. WIN - CONGRATS.

PAUL WOZNEY « » : The tradition of hockey in Sackville is a longstanding one, as our many active teams can attest. With the recent conclusion of the U18-C Apple Capital Classic, one of Nova Scotia's largest C hockey tournaments, the Sackville Leafs brought yet another championship title back to our community.

The final game of the tournament was a hard-fought battle against the Western Valley Spartans, but the Leafs held on. With just three minutes left, they scored the game-deciding goal and secured a gold medal with a score of two to one.

I ask that the members present join me in congratulating the Sackville Leafs on this recent victory and their hard work as the season continues.

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Waverley-Fall River-Beaver Bank.

BROWN, STEPHANIE & MARK: CYCLIST RESCUE - THANKS

HON. BRIAN WONG « » : I would like to recognize two constituents in Fall River for their quick life-saving efforts during a Summer morning last July.

Stephanie and her husband Mark encountered a very serious cyclist accident during their morning commute. Without hesitation, they sprang into action. While calling 911, they managed to direct traffic, locate a first aid kit, and apply gauze to the cyclist's face until responders arrived. Their swift and compassionate response exemplifies the spirit of community and serves as a poignant reminder of life's fragility.

Speaker and colleagues, I ask you to join me in applauding and thanking Stephanie and Mark for their incredible efforts, and for going above and beyond to help a fellow community member.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

BRIDGING THE GAP FOR KIDS: SCHOOL FOOD PROGRAM - THANKS

KENDRA COOMBES « » : I rise to recognize the hard work of Vicki Hillier, Mary MacLean, and Jessica MacLean. In December, Vicki came to my office to outline a vision for Greenfield Elementary based on an Amherst organization, the After the School Bell food program.

The concept is simple: No child should go hungry. Yet we know that so many do, especially on the weekends. Vicki, Mary, and Jessica created Bridging the Gap For Kids. On January 31^st, Bridging the Gap delivered the first set of food bags. To say this organization moved fast is an understatement. Thank you to the fantastic community members who have supported this initiative.

Speaker, the government needs to do more so that organizations like this can hang up their shingles knowing that no child goes hungry.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Digby-Annapolis.

CLEVELAND, BEN: COM. SERV. - RECOG.

HON. JILL BALSER « » : Speaker, I rise today to recognize Ben Cleveland, who has spent countless hours giving to the community of Digby. The causes, charities, and organizations he has committed to are vast and far-reaching.

For more than 32 years, Ben has been involved in planning festivals, volunteering with the Boys and Girls Club, and has been a long-serving member of the Digby Volunteer Fire Department, for which he was awarded the Governor General's Nova Scotia Fire Services Exemplary Service Medal in 2001. Ben has also served as Digby's mayor for the past 16 years - something any small-town mayor will admit is a monumental balancing act.

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It is Ben's generosity of time with the generations of youth in Digby that has made a big impact. Whether it was speaking at schools or judging a 4-H speech rally, he always took the time to speak with all the participants, providing positive feedback and encouragement. Ben, you will never know the true impact of your services to Digby. There is no metric to measure it, but we all know Digby is a better place because of your compassion, your tenacity, and your unlimited kindness.

We thank you for your years of service and contributions to the community of Digby.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Needham.

KELLUM, URSULA: NAVY LEAGUE OF CANADA - RECOG.

SUZY HANSEN « » : I rise today to recognize a lovely lady in our community. Her name is Ursula Kellum. Ursula Kellum is a community mom who is fun-loving, sees the good in everyone, and has a laugh to go with it. If you know, you know. She's also the branch president of the Nova Scotia Mainland Division Navy League of Canada.

I rise today to recognize Ursula, because we have known each other for all of our lives. We grew up in the same community, went to the same schools, and have been lifelong friends. We also share the same month for our birthdays, so you know she is awesome, just like me. (Laughs)

Speaker, I'd like to ask all members to join me in recognizing such an amazing, awesome, and beautiful person: Ursula Kellum - SUM.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Richmond.

LEBLANC, RONNIE: COM. SERV. - RECOG.

HON. TREVOR BOUDREAU: Speaker, I would like to recognize Richmond County's 2024 Volunteer of the Year, Ronnie LeBlanc. Ronnie has been a very engaged member of our community for more than 30 years. He is currently the president of the D'Escousse Civic Improvement Centre, taking an active role in many events that are hosted there. Ronnie is supportive and collaborates with many community groups, ensuring the success of their events, such as the Isle Madame ATV rally and the Yacht Club Festival. He was instrumental in starting the Isle Madame Chase the Ace event benefiting many organizations in the area. Ronnie retired after 35 years at NSLC. When he isn't volunteering, he enjoys gardening, hunting, boating, and spending time with family.

Please join me in honouring Ronnie LeBlanc, who personifies the qualities of a community leader.

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

[1:45 p.m.]

DILLY DALLY COFFEE CAFE: SERVICE - THANKS

KRISTA GALLAGHER « » : I rise today to recognize Dilly Dally Coffee Cafe, our constituency office neighbours. Located on the corner of Quinpool Road and Vernon Street, Dilly Dally is an independent café focused on local, small-batch, market-to-table coffee and food. The focus on fresh, local food has paid off, as the café recently was the gold winner for Best Breakfast Sandwich in The Coast's Best of Halifax 2024 awards, not to mention the personable, experienced staff, with Sarah Jupp winning bronze in the Best Barista category. These accolades speak to the care and quality put into all aspects of this local business.

I would like to thank Dilly Dally for serving café and kindness in Halifax Chebucto seven days a week, and I would like to acknowledge the hard work that goes into running a small business.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Hammonds Plains-Lucasville.

SIDEBOTTOM, MARK: KINGSWOOD MARKET - RECOG.

RICK BURNS: I rise today to acknowledge Mr. Mark Sidebottom, owner of Kingswood Market, an independent grocer in Hammonds Plains since 2004. At a time of high food insecurity and national inflation, this business's approach to providing affordable and quality products for the community is commendable. Most of their produce and fresh meats are locally sourced right here in the Maritimes. They even sell local products, including Nova Scotia ground beef. I would like to thank Mark for being a community leader and for providing such great food when residents are at their most vulnerable.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

SHANNON PARK HSC: FOOD DRIVE - THANKS

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : I rise today to recognize the efforts of the home and school committee at École Shannon Park Elementary School in Dartmouth North. Shannon Park is made up of students and families from neighbourhoods throughout Dartmouth, and each year their home and school committee hosts a number of social events to bring these folks together under one roof.

For the past two years, the committee has utilized their annual Halloween Howl dance to collect both cash and grocery donations for the Dartmouth Community Fridge. This initiative came from a desire to give back to the community and support those in need, with a particular awareness around food insecurity. The response to the drive has been positive and heartwarming, with very generous amounts of groceries being delivered to the fridge by parents and their children, and the committee looks forward to making future donations.

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I ask the House to join me in thanking the École Shannon Park Elementary School Home and School Committee and the entire school community for their efforts to address food insecurity in our community through their donations to the Dartmouth Community Fridge.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton East.

BRILUN CONSTRUCTION: BUS. OF YR. AWD. RECIP. - CONGRATS.

HON. BRIAN COMER: Today I rise to celebrate Brilun Construction in Sydney. This past November, the company won the title of Business of the Year 2024 at the Cape Breton Regional Chamber of Commerce Annual Excellence in Business Awards. Brilun is a locally owned and operated business employing close to 100 skilled and dedicated workers in general contracting, construction management, design, and consulting.

Last year, the company was among only 21 recipients across Canada that were recognized for their inclusive and diverse excellence in the workplace by the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America. Brilun is one of many companies behind the recent building boom on Cape Breton Island. From new housing units to road work, their team works hard building up our island.

Congratulations to Brian and Shelley Lund on these well-deserved awards, and I wish you all success.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Yarmouth.

CARLETON MEDICAL FIRST RESPONDERS: DEDIC. - THANKS

NICK HILTON « » : I rise today to recognize the outstanding work of the Carleton medical first responders. Established in 2024 in partnership with the Carleton & District Fire Department, this program provides vital services to our rural community with 12 trained first responders available to respond to emergencies. Equipped with life-saving tools, like defibrillators and oxygen tanks, they are often the first to arrive at the scene of heart attacks, accidents, and rescues.

In rural areas where emergency health services may be farther away, their quick response can make the difference between life and death. The team handles an average of one or two emergencies a week, with up to eight calls in a single week at times. Their dedication and bravery truly save lives, and we are grateful to have them in our community. I ask that the members of the House join me in thanking these first responders for their dedication to their community.

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Argyle.

JACQUARD, VERNON & DORA: RETIREMENT - CONGRATS.

HON. COLTON LEBLANC « » : Who doesn't like a good visit to Frenchy's, Speaker?

I rise today to congratulate Vernon and Dora Jacquard on their retirement. After nearly 33 years of owning and operating Tusket Frenchy's, the couple has passed on their business to new owners.

If you're looking for thrifty finds and discovering hidden treasures, Tusket Frenchy's was the place to go. When it came to snagging budget-friendly, high-quality second-hand clothing, from vintage to modern styles, you are sure to find a diverse selection for any trendy shopper. Some shoppers even say that shopping at Tusket Frenchy's was therapeutic and relaxing and a thrifty find was something to proudly brag about.

I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating Dora and Vernon on their retirement and wish them health and happiness in the new chapter of their lives.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Pictou Centre.

MCLEAN, SHAUN: COM. SERV. - THANKS

DANNY MACGILLIVRAY: It is my honour today to stand and recognize Shaun McLean, a very well-known and loved resident of New Glasgow. As a very young man Shaun was by his mother's side in her curiosity shop Lolly's Gifts that had the most incredible selection of Pictou County memorabilia, antiques, and unique gift selection you could imagine. This was the very best training ground for any budding entrepreneur.

Antiquing is in his blood and his ability to recognize the value, both sentimental and monetary, is a well-honed talent. Shaun now has an online auction business that has taken off over the past few years, to the delight of many customers.

He also has a beautiful venue in downtown New Glasgow called Shaun. It is a wonderful gathering spot to celebrate everything from a special birthday to a baby shower and more. At the same time, Shaun is a very busy registered massage therapist. His energy knows no bounds.

I would ask that we all take a moment to thank Shaun McLean for his incredible contributions to Pictou County.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Pictou West.

TWIN RIVERS PROPERTIES: SUCCESS - RECOG.

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MARCO MACLEOD « » : I rise today to recognize Twin Rivers Properties, run by a father and son team who build homes and own and manage more than 600 rental units throughout the Maritimes. Troy Van Veld and his son, Blair, saw a need for a mini-home supplier in the market and they opened their company in 2020. They are the only manufacturer of mini and modular homes in Nova Scotia and currently operate out of a 40,000 square foot facility in Granton.

Their company provides jobs and supports our economy with their Buy Nova Scotia procurement policy. Their goal is to have a minimum of 40 per cent of all material inputs made in our province, keeping money in our local economy.

I ask all members to join me in recognizing the Van Velds and the staff at Twin Rivers Properties for growing a successful business in Pictou County.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Inverness.

MACLEAN, SHIRLEY & CONRAD: BUS. OWNERS - CONGRATS.

KYLE MACQUARRIE « » : Today, I would like to acknowledge two small businesses owned by Shirley Walker MacLean and Conrad MacLean, the Central Shop and the Caper Gym and Fitness in Inverness. This young couple, wanting to live and work in the community of Inverness, decided to start their own businesses. Seeing the need for a fitness centre and high-quality clothing store they took it upon themselves to make these ideas become a reality. We're thankful that Shirley and Conrad have provided these two flourishing small businesses that are wonderful additions to the growing village of Inverness. It's also clear that I have allowed my gym membership to lapse for far too long.

Please join me in congratulating Shirley and Conrad for their success with the Central Shop and the Caper Gym and Fitness.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Hants East.

DAUGHTER, ENGAGEMENT - CONGRATS.

JOHN A. MACDONALD: About two weeks ago, Teresa, my daughter, was 28. On Sunday, her boyfriend proposed to her and she said yes. So, as of Sunday, Teresa MacDonald and Lewis Wright are engaged and I have no idea when, but congratulations, Sugar Bear. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Victoria-The Lakes.

RURAL FIREFIGHTERS: DEDICATION - THANKS

DIANNE TIMMINS: Speaker, I rise today to recognize the incredible dedication of the volunteer fire departments in Victoria-The Lakes and across rural Nova Scotia. In our many rural communities where paramedics and fire and police services often come from long distances, these volunteers are truly first responders.

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Their commitment goes far beyond fighting fires. They are on the front lines of motor vehicle accidents, medical emergencies, and natural disasters, responding at a moment's notice to protect lives and property. Their collaboration with each other and with the professional first responders speaks to their rigorous training, resourcefulness, and unwavering dedication to our communities.

I ask all members of this House to join me in expressing our deepest gratitude to not only the firefighters of Victoria-The Lakes but to all rural firefighters across Nova Scotia. Their selfless service is an inspiration to us all.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Bedford South.

MACINNIS, MARK: INSTANT IMPRINTS BURNSIDE - RECOG.

DAMIAN STOILOV « » : I rise today to recognize an incredible member of our community of Bedford South. Mark MacInnis is the owner of Instant Imprints Burnside, a franchise that he opened in 2023.

Mark is a combat war veteran who served our country in uniform for years as an officer in the Army, including being deployed in Afghanistan. Following his military service, Mark made Bedford South his permanent home after years of living all over Canada. Mark also took the plunge into entrepreneurship. His business provides promotional material, branded clothing, and print services to many teams and clubs all over the HRM, creating many jobs in our community.

I ask the members of this Assembly to help me in recognizing Mark MacInnis for his important contributions to our community, but most importantly his service to our country.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Kings North.

SHAFFELBURG, JACOB: COPA AMÉRICA PARTIC. - CONGRATS.

HON. JOHN LOHR « » : I rise today to acknowledge and congratulate Jacob Shaffelburg, a former Port Williams resident who is a key player for Team Canada at Copa América.

Jacob was named to Canada's 26-man roster for the 2024 Copa América in June. He assisted in Canada's first-ever goal at the tournament in a 1-0 victory over Peru, resulting in Canada's first-ever win in the competition. He then went on to score in the quarter-final match against Venezuela, resulting in a 1-1 draw for Canada. Jacob currently plays as a winger for major league soccer club Nashville SC and the Canada national team.

Please join me today to congratulate Jacob Shaffelburg in his successful career as an outstanding professional athlete and Team Canada member at Copa América.

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Lunenburg.

CROSLAND, ANNA: PISKIE PEGS CREATOR - RECOG.

HON SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK « » : I rise today to recognize Anna Crosland of Lunenburg, an award-winning educator and creator of whimsical play sets designed to encourage early literacy through storytelling and creative play. They're called Piskie Pegs, piskies being a type of mischievous woodland fairy in the west of England. They are deceptively simple. The figures, whether people or animals, are painted on wooden pegs, reminiscent of early Fisher-Price people. If you're my age, you know what that means. Depending on the theme, they are paired with accessories like felt placemats or wooden blocks.

I personally became aware of Anna's work during the recent election campaign, when she painted a peg version of me as a means of encouraging people to get out and vote. Respecting the rules of this House, I did not bring it in with me today, but let me say, I've never looked better. In a world where toy trends come and go, Piskie Pegs offers something timeless, tactile, and incredibly stimulating for young minds. I encourage Nova Scotians to check them out.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. The time allotted for Statements by Members has expired. We will start with Orders of the Day. The time is now 2:00 p.m. We will finish at 2:50 p.m.

[2:00 p.m.]

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ORAL QUESTIONS PUT BY MEMBERS TO MINISTERS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

PREM.: INFORMATION BLOCKS - ABANDON

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Yesterday, the Premier finally admitted that he was wrong to undermine the independence of the Auditor General. This was never about being in line with other jurisdictions. Blocking impartial information from Nova Scotians and imposing policies on them without consultation and debate is wrong. There is still a long list of other problematic proposals from this government. Will the Premier also abandon his attack on the Information and Privacy Commissioner and his plan to scrap the report about ER closures?

HON. TIM HOUSTON (The Premier) « » : Thank you. (Applause)

THE SPEAKER « » : You guys just clapped away 10 of his seconds.

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The honourable Premier.

THE PREMIER « » : Obviously, these are important discussions. We know we live in a highly charged political environment where people say things, jump to conclusions, and kind of put their own spin on what legislation might do, but Nova Scotians know that we're coming from a place of our heart and doing good things. I had a good discussion with the Auditor General, and we will continue those discussions. I've spoken with the Information and Privacy Commissioner to understand her concerns. The emergency department closure report doesn't need to be done annually. We do it every single day in this province.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Nova Scotians I talk to live in fear of being labelled as special interest, for whatever that will bring. During this campaign, people made it clear they wanted primary care, they want affordable homes, and they want to build a good life in a province they love, but this government has spent all its time in this House trying to consolidate power instead of improving the daily life of Nova Scotians. Instead of pushing his agenda, the Premier needs to listen to the people of this province, even those who disagree with him. Will the Premier also drop his plan to limit debate for members representing tens of thousands of constituents on the important issues facing them and all Nova Scotians?

THE PREMIER « » : As leaders, we have a responsibility to stick somewhere close to reality. There's lots of opportunity for debate. We welcome actual productive debate. We listen carefully, and we learn from it. The reality is that Nova Scotians voted for more doctors. We're delivering on that. Nova Scotians voted for more homes. We're delivering on that. Nova Scotians voted for lower taxes. We are delivering on that. We are prepared and ready to talk about the issues in this Chamber. We've done that with an incredible budget that we've tabled. We're just waiting for that moment when the Opposition says, Let's talk about some of those things, too.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Nova Scotians didn't vote for policies to be pulled out of thin air without consultation or debate. My colleagues and I are imploring this government to listen to Nova Scotians. Listen to people who are worried about the unilateral decision, not campaigned upon, to remove bans on fracking and uranium mining. Listen to the families who need help now not empty promises of potential in 15 years. Listen to the property owners who are afraid that large corporations will ignore the rights they already have. Will the Premier acknowledge that he was wrong to remove the resource bans with no consultation, re-examine his decision, and listen to the people of this province?

THE PREMIER « » : We listen very carefully to the people of this province. I do that every single day in a number of formats. We listen and we respond. We know we need to grow the economy of this province. We know it's going to require action. We know it's time to take the No out of Nova Scotia. We listen. You know who didn't listen to the people? The people spoke very loudly and very clearly. The last NDP government, when they raised taxes and when they made cuts to our health care system - the NDP government was a one-term government because they cut education. We remember those days, and I think maybe a few members opposite might remember those days too.

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THE SPEAKER « » : Order. The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.

PREM.: PC FUNDRAISING EMAIL ATTACKS - ADDRESS

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : I do remember those days, and I agree with the Premier « » : They were terrible. (Applause) They're not going to clap for my question, though. Nova Scotians expect their government to lead with transparency, respect, and unity, not division and secrecy. But in a recent fundraising e-mail from the PCs, it made it clear where the government's priorities really lie. The e-mail attacks Nova Scotians who disagree with them, labels critics as special interests and professional protesters, and even brags about bypassing the media, and I'll table that. This is a dangerous pattern. How can Nova Scotians trust a government that sees accountability as an obstacle?

THE PREMIER « » : Shall we continue on our little history lesson we were having? I remember a time when the Liberal government shut the entire Legislature down for an entire year, so now we can talk about transparency. The values, the thoughts, the perspectives, the input of Nova Scotians matter tremendously to this government, and that is why we are constantly listening, why we're constantly working with Nova Scotians. You know what? We're not perfect. I know there are some that think they may be, but I know that we are not, and when we get it wrong, we'll have the courage to say we got that wrong, and we'll continue to do that.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Listen, people get it wrong sometimes, but when you offer support and you ask for money to block the media, we're in a very different, very dangerous game. Governments are supposed to work for all Nova Scotians - not just their donors - but instead of bringing people together, this government is pitting Nova Scotians against each other, calling those who speak out against them special interests and attacking those who disagree. This kind of rhetoric doesn't make our province stronger; it makes us more divided. Will the Premier take responsibility for this divisive message and commit to leading a government that listens to all Nova Scotians - not just the ones who agree with him?

THE PREMIER « » : Listen, I have great respect for the role that the media plays. That's why I make myself available to the media every single day through my media availability. That's why I participate on call-in talk shows. I think I'll be on CTV tonight to take the questions of the concerns of the people. I will continue to make myself available through telephone town halls, through Legion halls, through dinners. Nova Scotians know that this government is accessible, and Nova Scotians know that this government will listen. We may not always agree, but we will certainly listen and evaluate, and we will continue to do that.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : The comments coming from the Premier - for me, it doesn't matter in the sense that you sent an email to donors asking them to donate and to bypass the media when you want to. That is some of the most dangerous language I've ever heard come from a political party in a democracy, and Nova Scotians do not agree with that. The government's email brags about bypassing the media when it suits them. This should concern every single Nova Scotian. A free and independent press is essential to holding the governments accountable, but this Premier is shutting out journalists, limiting access to public information, and now admitting they'll sidestep the media when it's convenient for them. Can the Premier explain why he thinks the government shouldn't have to answer to Nova Scotians?

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THE PREMIER « » : I wonder if the honourable member uses Facebook or if he only does everything through the media. The reality is we're open and accessible to the media. Probably when I leave here, I'll be across the street doing a media availability. Any member of the media can call the . . . (interruptions).

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. Order.

The honourable Premier.

THE PREMIER « » : I'll be across the street for a media availability like I am every single day, I already was once so far today, but we'll continue to do that. My only question for the member is: Since he got our political party fundraising email, how much did he donate?

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.

CNS: MEDIA BYPASS STATEMENT - EXPLAIN

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I didn't donate anything, but many PC party donors did share that same email with me. They shared the part in particular where the PC party asked their donors to "bypass the media when we need to, among other things." I'm going to table that. The media has an important job: to get Nova Scotians accurate, timely, and most importantly, non-partisan and unbiased information about what happens in this House. The Premier won't speak to them in this House, as premiers have done for over 100 years. Again I want to ask the Premier « » : Does he agree with the sentiment that governments must bypass the media?

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister responsible for L'nu Affairs.

HON. LEAH MARTIN « » : Feel free to pick the one you like. That works for me. In terms of communication, it's never been more important for us to communicate with Nova Scotians. It's important that they have clear messaging from us from a non-partisan perspective, and we'll continue to deliver that on a regular basis. The Premier and the team have always been accessible to answer questions of Nova Scotians, and we'll continue to do that.

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I'll remind the House that this was a partisan fundraising email that was asking donors to bypass the media. The minister who responded was formerly the Minister of Communications Nova Scotia, who had that task, but that doesn't exist anymore - just in the last week, we have seen this government dismantle CNS. We have seen the Premier refuse to speak to journalists in this House for the first time in living memory. The government has limited debate, blocked freedom of information, attempted to take power from the Auditor General, and on and on - and now unprovoked attacks on the media. My question is: Why is this government so afraid of accountability?

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THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Premier.

THE PREMIER « » : The whole litany of imagination there, shall we say? I do want to be very clear on one thing for all Nova Scotians: The very reason that I take my media availabilities across the street in the media room is to be more open to media. The simple fact is there are reporters outside of this core of Halifax who would like to ask ministers and the Premier questions, and they have the technology in that room to do it. We are more open. We are more accessible. We will continue to send political party fundraising emails, and if that's wrong, I ask the Opposition . . . (Applause)

SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition on a new question.

FTB: TRADE PLAN - CONSULT

CLAUDIA CHENDER: I hope that these representations by the Premier are not the kind of non-partisan information that we're going to get now that there is an attempt for media to be silenced. The Premier and his friend Doug Ford came up with the plan for interprovincial trade last week while campaigning together in Ontario. Our representatives from labour, industry, and workers were not present, nor was our media. Yesterday, President Trump made it clear that these tariffs are coming, and it's Nova Scotians who need to know what the plan is to help them weather this storm. Will the Premier finally engage with Nova Scotians . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order.

[2:15 p.m.]

CLAUDIA CHENDER: Speaker, they clapped for 10 seconds.

THE SPEAKER « » : Everybody has been clapping during everybody speaking. Order.

The honourable Minister of the Department of Finance and Treasury Board.

HON. JOHN LOHR « » : The issue of tariffs, of course, is one that hangs over our whole nation. I do want to acknowledge the work the Premier has done on that in conjunction with other Premiers. I know the member would be aware that we've put a contingency in our budget and received kudos for it. I hope the member will support the budget. We are addressing that - the trade issue.

[Page 424]

CLAUDIA CHENDER: As the Auditor General has told us, this government's willing to spend over $1 billion per year over budget. So $200 million - bravo. We don't know what it's for. We would be happy to engage with that when we have any information. The reality is that over the past weeks, this government has shown contempt for anyone labelled a special interest group. The engagements that have happened around tariffs and around policy are not transparent. It certainly seems as though this is their way of gatekeeping and leaving important voices out of this conversation and all conversations. Will the Premier finally come clean with Nova Scotians about whom he considers to be special interest groups, and who is actually dictating the policies that come forward in this House?

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister for Growth and Development.

HON. COLTON LEBLANC « » : The assertion that government is not meeting but doing things behind closed doors is simply wrong. The Department of IGA has met with over 125 businesses in the last number of months. The Premier and I had a meeting this morning with some of the members of our business community. That is in addition to the meeting that we had a few weeks ago with members of the Chambers of Commerce. We are a government that is listening to the needs of Nova Scotians, and guess what? We're a government of action. We'll continue to support the best interests of Nova Scotians.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

FTB: AUDITOR GENERAL MUZZLING - EXPLAIN

KRISTA GALLAGHER « » : I commend the government for finally listening to Nova Scotians and walking back the undemocratic plan to muzzle the Auditor General. We are relieved that the government decided to do the right thing, but the changes should not have been proposed in the first place. Now that they have admitted they have done wrong to attack the Auditor General's independence, they should be honest about why these changes were proposed in the first place.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. Order. (Interruptions) Order means stop talking. That's an unparliamentary word. I ask you to retract that word. I ask you to rephrase it.

The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

KRISTA GALLAGHER « » : I will retract the word "honest," and ask: Will they be transparent about these changes that were proposed in the first place, and will this government admit . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order.

Okay. There, your clock's back on.

The honourable member for Halifax Chebucto.

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KRISTA GALLAGHER « » : We'll get through it. Will this government admit that it hoped to use this mandate to fire the Auditor General?

HON. JOHN LOHR « » : We delivered a budget to the province that included a significant increase in the Auditor General's budget. We've always said we supported her work. In fact, we've had 24 clean audits as a province, which represents a number of different governments - 24 absolutely clean audits from the Auditor General. The Auditor General herself said we worked very hard to meet all of the recommendations. We do virtually all of them, so I'm very proud of that. In fact, we delivered a budget that is increasing food in the school lunch programs, and I hope the NDP will vote for it.

KRISTA GALLAGHER « » : Since the government is so interested in doing jurisdictional scans, here are some places where they can start: Nova Scotia has the lowest wages, we have the highest child poverty rate, we have the highest rate of food insecurity, and we have one of the highest energy poverty rates in the country. Now that they have rightfully backtracked on the Auditor General changes, will they finally address the problems that actually matter to Nova Scotians?

JOHN LOHR « » : We've been sending our sons and daughters for a generation out west to work in resource industries, and we're starting to address that. To change the factor of poverty - we know that poverty is a huge determinant of health. We know it affects the lives of individuals. We know that we can do better in Nova Scotia. We are doing exactly that. We believe Nova Scotia has a very bright future. We are investing in Nova Scotia in numerous ways, including generational tax cuts, including the largest-ever build of capital projects in the province for things that we cannot afford not to do - new schools, new hospitals, new housing, new roads. We're building them.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Leader of the Liberal Party.

DOJ: FOIPOP LAWS - PROTECT

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Speaker, after strong public pressure, the Premier backed down from his threats to the Auditor General. This was the right decision, but this government is still pushing policies that undermine our democracy. Now the Premier wants to weaken our freedom of information laws, giving his ministers the power to decide which documents the public can and cannot see. Privacy experts and the Information and Privacy Commissioner herself are sounding the alarm. Will the Premier do the right thing and back down on his plan to weaken FOIPOP laws?

HON. BECKY DRUHAN « » : We recognize the importance of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act as a tool for access and transparency. The amendments that are being proposed are intended to strengthen that and ensure that Nova Scotians, when they have legitimate requests seeking information, are able to do that. The House knows that since April 2024, there have been a total of about 3,500 FOIPOP requests received, but 580 of those requests came from three applicants. That is unfair to Nova Scotians who are fairly seeking access to information. Our amendments will address that issue.

[Page 426]

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : I appreciate the response from the minister, but the Information and Privacy Commissioner is saying there's a problem. Similar to what the Auditor General said - that there was a problem. Why not pull back and have a conversation and get it right? You did it with the Auditor General. The government did the right thing. We're asking them to do the right thing in this case as well when your Information and Privacy Commissioner has concerns.

These aren't private documents. We're talking about public records that belong to Nova Scotians. The public has a right to hold this government accountable, but we're seeing this dangerous pattern from the government: limiting Opposition in committees, changing FOIPOP laws without input from the Information and Privacy Commission, and shutting out the media. Will the Minister of Justice commit to protecting transparency and give the Information and Privacy Commissioner her say before making these changes?

BECKY DRUHAN « » : Yes, the Minister of Justice will absolutely commit to upholding Nova Scotians' access to information, upholding democracy, and upholding transparency. That's what our changes are about. Speaker, we've proposed many amendments. We've had dialogue with Nova Scotians. We'll continue to have dialogue. We'll continue to make improvements. That's what we do: We aim to improve access to information, improve democracy, and improve transparency. We will continue to talk to Nova Scotians and continue to make the changes that we need to address Nova Scotians' needs effectively.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

DOJ: UNPROCLAIMED ACTS - REVIEW

LINA HAMID « » : The Security and Investigative Services Act of 2010, which would regulate security staff like bouncers, remains unproclaimed. The family of Ryan Michael Sawyer, a 31-year-old who died outside the Halifax Alehouse in December 2022, says that this law could have saved his life. Does this government plan to review the current unproclaimed Acts to ensure that it is not repealing valuable legislation that could save lives?

HON. BECKY DRUHAN « » : Speaker, I anticipated debating items of legislation during debates, but as we're addressing them during Question Period, we will be addressing the question of unproclaimed legislation through the amendments that we have proposed. We look forward to having fulsome debate outside of our 45-second answers during Question Period when those bills come to the floor for debate.

LINA HAMID « » : We understand that some of those unproclaimed laws may no longer be relevant, and we are glad that there will be some opportunity to delay automatic appeals. At the same time, we know that this government has refused to proclaim the Coastal Protection Act, despite overwhelming community support for this law. Is this simply creating an excuse to kill the Coastal Protection Act once and for all?

[Page 427]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Minister of Environment and Climate Change.

HON. TIMOTHY HALMAN » : We're moving forward with the Nova Scotia Coastal Action Plan, an action plan that protects 13,000 diverse kilometres of coastline. The best way to protect the coastline is to . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. I heard the member for Sackville-Cobequid yelling. I ask that we refrain from yelling things out.

The honourable Minister of Environment and Climate Change.

TIMOTHY HALMAN « » : Speaker, the best way to protect Nova Scotia's diverse coastline is to support informed decision-making. It is to support municipal leadership. I want to take this opportunity to thank Mayor Andy Filmore and Mayor Cecil Clarke, who have pledged their support for Nova Scotia's Coastal Action Plan.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid.

DAE: POST-SECONDARY STUDENTS - SUPPORT

PAUL WOZNEY « » : The question is to the Minister of Advanced Education. The increasing cost of living in our province has not been matched by an increase in financial support for post-secondary students. The results are striking. One Dalhousie University student explained that students right now are being forced to decide what they will spend their money on, whether it's rent, tuition, groceries. They are struggling just to be able to live. My question to the minister is: Why does this budget continue to stretch post-secondary students thin?

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE: We are doing a lot of work with our universities. We are in the middle of coming forward with a new bilateral agreement. I want to thank all the university presidents whom I've met with and had a discussion with. I want to thank Students Nova Scotia. We are reaching out to our stakeholders. We're doing consultations. We want to ensure that our universities are a beacon for Nova Scotia and attract people from all over the world.

PAUL WOZNEY « » : Last year, this government's 2 per cent tuition cap did not provide post-secondary students with adequate relief. The costs they faced were simply too high, and they remain so. Nova Scotia has the highest university tuition rates in Canada, coming in at 33 per cent above the national average. This is a disgraceful title that we have unceremoniously held for the last six years. I'll table that. My question to the minister is: When will the minister provide real support for students struggling to cover their basic costs through this budget?

[Page 428]

BRENDAN MAGUIRE: We are providing resources in a whole host of tuition forgiveness and bursaries. We're also investing in Nova Scotians. We're investing in natural resources so that when our students graduate, they do not go out West, which they traditionally did. They'll stay here in Nova Scotia. They'll see a future for themselves, and they're able to build a life and a family right here in this beautiful province.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Needham.

GAD: BLOOMFIELD SCHOOL BUY-BACK - COMMIT

SUZY HANSEN « » : Speaker, when asked about Bloomfield last week, the Minister of Growth and Development said, "If the member has a proposal for a plan for a project, we'll certainly entertain that." I'm going to table that. Now, I have a proposal. The province should support the Halifax Regional Municipality as it seeks to buy back the former Bloomfield School site. My question is to the minister responsible for housing: Will the minister commit to this proposal?

[2:30 p.m.]

HON. COLTON LEBLANC « » : I respectfully say that's a matter for HRM to deal with through that process. I remember last week that the member asked me about affordable housing, so I'm going to take an opportunity to talk about affordable housing. We have invested in new affordable housing supply by over 400 per cent since 2020-21, increasing the number of units supported by 550 per cent. This includes a commitment of over $100 million for new projects for the last three years for the construction of 932 new units, 650 of them are affordable. I'll have more to say.

SUZY HANSEN « » : I am very confused. They're clapping for my proposal, but then they're saying they don't want to do it. I'm just very confused.

Land on the peninsula is hard to come by, and this is exactly where we desperately need to be creating more affordable supply. Working to gain access to this site - to build this type of housing supply that folks actually need - would make the most out of an otherwise bad situation. There is a proposal put forward, as the minister had asked, right in front of them. I am going to ask again: Will this government do everything they can, which is to look at this proposal, to get affordable housing built on the Bloomfield lot?

COLTON LEBLANC « » : We won't turn a blind eye to a good proposal. We have invested hundreds of millions of dollars. We have cut miles and miles of - I was going to say red tape - orange tape. We have made ground-breaking investments in housing. The proof is in the pudding: 125 per cent of our 2028 target. We are going to continue moving the needle in the right direction. Nothing is stopping us.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cumberland North.

DHW: AMBULANCE WAIT TIMES - DECREASE

[Page 429]

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : My question is to the Minister of Health and Wellness, and my question today is regarding the Auditor General's Report of Ground Ambulance Service. Once I'm done the two questions, I'll table that report. The Auditor General released this report, and it indicated that Nova Scotia's "ground ambulance service is in a critical state." The government is "not effectively monitoring performance of EMCI" - or Medavie Blue Cross - to adequately deliver it, Auditor General Kim Adair said. Last year, the average wait time for ambulance in Nova Scotia spiked from 14 to 25 minutes, an increase of 79 per cent. I'll ask the minister: What is being done to decrease the wait times?

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON » : We were very happy to work with the Auditor General on that report. We accepted all the recommendations. I believe that the report ended on December 31, 2023, if my memory serves me correctly. I don't have it in front of me. We have done a number of things. We have looked at increasing the number of people who are on the ambulance - we have very . . . (interruption). We have done a number of things. We certainly have seen a big increase in workforce related to paramedics. We've introduced EMRs. We have the fixed-wing aircraft. There are a number of things that have happened . . .

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : The reason I bring this up today in Question Period is because I am still hearing from Nova Scotians who are waiting an hour and a half, two hours, or three hours during medical emergencies for an ambulance. It's not acceptable. One of the things that I have been concerned about - and paramedics have drawn attention to - is that the time that is being given for the wait times is not based on from when people call 911 to when an ambulance arrives. Therefore, the times that the department is releasing, as far as the wait times, is not accurate. Last night during Estimates, the minister did verify that this is true. Will the minister commit to changing this so that there are more transparent, accurate results, and now offline?

MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I did not validate that statement last night in Estimates. That is not accurate. When someone calls 911, the moment that the location of the individual is verified, the clock starts. The minute they know where they are going - where they understand what the call is - that is when the clock starts. There are lots of calls that come in to 911 until they know where they are going. The moment they arrive on scene - that is when the clock stops. There is absolutely no way that this is being misleading in any way, and I think it's shocking that a member of this Legislature would accuse the Department of Health and Wellness, the company, paramedics, or dispatch of hiding information from Nova Scotians. I find that shocking.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

AMH: PATIENT SAFETY GUARANTEES - PROVIDE

LISA LACHANCE « » : This government recently announced its plan to hire private mental health providers, managed through a third party organization, to provide mental health services funded with public money, but there is no plan for guaranteeing patient safety nor making sure that Nova Scotians have access to evidence-based practices. Nova Scotians need to know they will receive high-quality services. Other jurisdictions have built patient safety into their mental health services - no matter the provider. My question for the minister is: When will he announce a plan to ensure patient safety for all mental health services in Nova Scotia?

[Page 430]

HON. BRIAN COMER: I think when you see what's happening across the country, Nova Scotia is a leader in universal mental health care. Starting this Spring, we'll be the first jurisdiction in North America to offer publicly funded mental health care across Nova Scotia. There's certainly more work to do. We're working very hard. I do think we have some of the best clinicians in the country, and we're very fortunate to work alongside them, so I'm looking forward to rolling out this program for all Nova Scotians this Spring.

LISA LACHANCE « » : Since the government announced its plan to provide public money to private mental health providers, mental health leaders from across this province have raised their concerns about how this program will further erode the public system. We have heard from Nova Scotia Health Authority child and youth psychiatrists from across the province, the Association of Psychologists of Nova Scotia, and school psychologists who say that the potential of earning more money outside of overwhelmed systems will drain our public system further. My question is for the minister: How will he ensure that public clinicians in Nova Scotia are not enticed to abandon the public system for the private sector?

BRIAN COMER: We've increased investment to mental health by over 40 per cent since 2021, so it's significant. Of the $136 million that we increased in funding, over 90 per cent of that has been allocated to the public system. This is just another lever to pull, and we're going to pull every lever that we can.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

DOE: POWER RATE INCREASE - ADDRESS

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Nova Scotia Power customers are dealing with yet another power rate increase of 2.4 per cent. Across this province, Nova Scotians are finding it increasingly difficult to afford housing, food, and other essentials, and now they have to deal with yet another price increase. My question is for the Minister of Energy: Why isn't the government doing more to help Nova Scotians who are struggling to keep the lights on?

HON. TREVOR BOUDREAU: We know that when energy bills or power bills come in and Nova Scotians see a rise, they have concerns, and it's a challenge for people, and we recognize that, and as a government, we've taken some significant investments to make sure that we support Nova Scotians. There was a report last week that said there was a 2.4 per cent increase that happened through Nova Scotia Power, and I just want to read from that, and I'll table this, but we provided a bailout. We negotiated a $500 million loan guarantee from the federal government to support Nova Scotians, and without that bailout, the utility said it would have raised average rates 19.2 per cent this year, not 2.4.

[Page 431]

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Well, I'm glad the minister understands that it is a struggle for many, many Nova Scotians to pay their power bills. I have an idea. It's not mine, actually. The province is one of the provinces with the highest rate of energy poverty, but the Energy Poverty Task Force has laid out a plan to address the issue. We don't need to continually get bailouts. We have another idea: The plan includes an arrears forgiveness program and rate discounts for lower-income Nova Scotians, among other things. In case a reminder is needed, the department received this task force recommendation in April of last year. Why hasn't the government implemented the recommendations to help lift more Nova Scotians out of energy poverty?

TREVOR BOUDREAU: We've created a number of different programs to support Nova Scotians and ratepayers here in Nova Scotia to support them with their challenges with their energy bills. I can think of the HARP program, $600 a year to support Nova Scotians. I think of the HEAT Fund, again to support Nova Scotians who are struggling with energy poverty. I think of the Seniors Care Grant - $750 a year - and I think of the investments in this budget to reduce taxes, to put more money in people's pockets, to support Nova Scotians when these are challenging times that they face.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

CSDS: PRIVACY RECOMMENDATIONS - IMPLEMENT

LINA HAMID « » : Last week, the Information and Privacy Commissioner released her report on the 2023 MOVEit data breach, during which 100,000 Nova Scotians had their personal data stolen, like SIN numbers, addresses, and banking information. The Information and Privacy Commissioner found that the government failed to implement even the most basic security measures to protect Nova Scotians' personal information. My question is: Does this government take full responsibility for this failure and commit to implementing all of the commissioner's recommendations?

HON. JILL BALSER « » : When the MOVEit breach took place, it was the most significant breach the Province of Nova Scotia has seen. Under the former minister - the very first minister this government has ever seen as the head of the Department of Cyber Security and Digital Solutions - we worked hard to make sure that we contained that breach, that we got the information out to Nova Scotians, and we acted quickly. Nova Scotia now is seen as a leader in this space, and we're going to continue to protect Nova Scotians' information and listen to the Information and Privacy Commissioner in terms of the recommendations that were brought forward. We are acting and have acted.

LINA HAMID « » : My question again is: Does this government take full responsibility for that data breach?

JILL BALSER « » : We know that cyber attacks are increasing in volume and increasing in significance. We're going to make sure that we as a Province continue to make the appropriate investments to protect Nova Scotians' information. We also know that governments are not immune. Cyber attacks are the second biggest global threat that all governments in all countries and all provinces and territories are up against. The fact that we have a dedicated Department of Cyber Security and Digital Solutions is significant. It is showing that we are committed to making sure that we are putting right investments in the right places to protect Nova Scotians always.

[Page 432]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

FTB: TAX ON CHILDREN'S GOODS - REMOVE

HON. IAIN RANKIN « » : I have a question on point-of-sale rebates for children's goods. The Premier has cited the need to harmonize trade and the economy across the country. In Nova Scotia, while necessities related to children, like clothing and diapers, are HST-exempt, tax is charged to buy car seats and booster seats. In other provinces like Ontario, there is no provincial tax charge. Since we are specifically working with Premier Ford to get rid of regulatory differences, will the government commit to also no longer charging families taxes for purchase of car seats to keep our children safe?

HON. JOHN LOHR « » : We recognize as a government that affordability issues are profound for all Nova Scotians, particularly young families. That's why we're bringing in a $500 million tax break for Nova Scotians this year - that's $1,000 on average per family - as well as ramping up and making substantial investments in the School Lunch Program. We're working very hard on affordability. We recognize the issue.

IAIN RANKIN « » : I'm not asking to ramp up - I'm asking to level up. The end of the tax holiday last week means families are facing an increase on necessities for their children, necessities that keep them safe. I'm aware of families buying them second-hand; they're actually buying car seats that could be expired and not safe for children. Since the government is looking across the country on how to change things, I was hoping we could actually look at some things that would make things better for Nova Scotians. Using the same logic they're using as to why rules need to change in the House and other changes, to copy one or two provinces. Will the government make this small adjustment that actually will help both families and our local retailers and make our car seats safe?

JOHN LOHR « » : We continue to work hard for Nova Scotians for affordability. We are making unprecedented investments in rent supplements. We've indexed the amounts for people on income assistance. We've done many different things as a government. This is a historic budget. I hope the member will support it for that alone, for the investments we're making in affordability for Nova Scotians.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

[2:45 p.m.]

[Page 433]

DMA: BROKEN INFRASTRUCTURE - ADDRESS

KENDRA COOMBES « » : The CBRM is struggling with strained and broken infrastructure, roads that are falling apart, municipal services that don't provide the support people deserve. Why did the government simply reallocate old money, instead of adding new money to the equalization fund? I direct that to the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

HON. JOHN LOHR « » : I do want to point out that as a government, we are making historic investments in Cape Breton. I want Cape Bretoners to know that we're spending. We're investing in Tartan Downs. We're investing in municipal infrastructure. We're investing in a hospital in Cape Breton. We're investing in a new medical school. We are making unprecedented investments in the CBRM and I'm very proud of those investments as a government.

KENDRA COOMBES « » : Besides the point that most of the things the minister just discussed were announced under a previous government, the minister didn't answer the question. The people of the CBRM deserve better than the dismissive treatment they have received from this government in the past session. We need this government to take concrete action now. Will the minister answer this question: Will this government add more money to the Municipal Financial Capacity Grant to ensure that the CBRM gets its fair share?

JOHN LOHR « » : We are investing in the CBRM in many other ways, too. We've invested in new public housing for the first time in a generation, in the CBRM as well as in other communities, but a substantial investment in the CBRM. I know we've invested in the upkeep of the existing public housing stock again in the CBRM. We continue to make historic investments in the CBRM. I want the people of Cape Breton to know that we care about them, we are investing in them.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Armdale.

DHW: NSHA CEO POSITION - FILL

ROD WILSON « » : Speaker, in September 2021, Ms. Karen Oldfield was appointed as the interim president and CEO of the Nova Scotia Health Authority. Interim usually implies that this is a temporary measure until the position is posted and permanently filled, not a four-year term, yet nearly four years later Ms. Oldfield is still the interim president and CEO. My question to this government is: When will the government publicly post a search for a permanent president and CEO of the Nova Scotia Health Authority, one that Ms. Oldfield would be welcome to apply for?

HON. MICHELLE THOMPSON « » : I always find the question of interim interesting, because arguably, I am the interim Health Minister. It certainly is not my permanent, full-time job forever since I serve at the pleasure of the Premier. I will say that the CEO currently came out of retirement, has an incredible leadership ability. She has changed health care in this province, certainly has worked hard every day on behalf of Nova Scotians. We deeply appreciate the work she has done and continues to do. We are so proud of the work that has happened not only through Nova Scotia Health but across this province. I think this individual should be commended for her contributions.

[Page 434]

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, please. The time allotted for Oral Questions Put by Members to Ministers has expired.

The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE: Speaker, pursuant to Rule 5C, I move that the hours for February 26^th be not 1:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. but instead be 1:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.

THE SPEAKER « » : The motion is that the hours for Wednesday, February 26^th be not from 1:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. but 1:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.

All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.

The motion is carried.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Government House Leader.

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE: Speaker, would you please call the order of business Government Motions.

GOVERNMENT MOTIONS

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE: Speaker, I move that you do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into the Committee of the Whole on Supply.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Dartmouth North.

SUSAN LEBLANC « » : Speaker, in the days since we started debating the budget, we in the Opposition, along with many Nova Scotians, have been extremely concerned by the resolutions and legislation put forward by this government that would see a slew of changes made that would have, or could have, a detrimental effect on the democratic institutions and processes of our province - changes that would make it possible to fire members of the public service, changes that would make it harder to access information from government departments through FOIPOP, and perhaps most alarmingly, changes to the way we do business in this Chamber, so that members may be limited in how we debate and improve legislation moving through the House.

May I say that the irony of this anti-democratic change is particularly bitter when we look at it in the context of what is happening with the threats from our neighbours to the south. President Trump's threats of tariffs and threat of absorbing Canada into the United States are generally met with epithets of Canadian pride: We are Canadian. We need to stand together. We're different from the United States. We hold democracy in high esteem, and we want no part of the United States, et cetera.

[Page 435]

The Premier has been in Toronto working on taking down Canadian trade barriers and in Washington trying to convince the U.S. not to threaten Canada with tariffs. Yes. Fine. Great. That's awesome. Meanwhile, the actions taking place here at home are direct attempts to use a supermajority to consolidate power and to distract from the lack of action on anything that the Premier campaigned on in the last election.

I am going to use my few minutes today to remind the House and hopefully the public that the Premier campaigned on, among other things, needing a second mandate to continue to fix health care. He needed a second mandate to finish the job, he said. We are just getting started, he suggested. The sad fact is he was right. Health care was not fixed in the Progressive Conservatives' mandate, and by many metrics was seen to be getting worse: more ER closures, thousands more people without attachment to primary care, longer wait times, and - wait for it - a midwifery program that suffered from a severe lack of investment and vision for what a well-resourced program could mean for our province.

Midwives in Nova Scotia provide comprehensive primary care during pregnancy, birth, and the first six weeks after birth, caring for pregnant and postpartum people and their newborns. This care replaces the care provided by a physician or nurse practitioner. Nova Scotia has 2.6 midwives per 1,000 population - I'm sorry, per 100,000 population - if only - per 100,000 population, below the national average of 4.7 and far behind international comparators. Australia, for example, has 122 midwives per 100,000-person population.

Midwifery care is provided in Nova Scotia by the South Shore Community Midwives, IWK Community Midwives, and Highland Community Midwives, as well as through a limited pilot program in Inverness providing prenatal, postpartum, and newborn care. I'd like to take a moment to thank these midwives for the important work they're doing caring for pregnant people and their newborns. These folks are doing incredible work under much less than perfect circumstances.

Despite the NDP calling for many years for a commitment to midwifery services and a large expansion to the program here, unfortunately there is no money in the budget for midwifery expansion, and that is, frankly, very disappointing for a government that was re-elected to fix health care. The government of Nova Scotia has indicated that there are no plans to increase access to midwifery services despite consistent demand in other areas of the province and long wait-lists for services.

Last year, over 1,200 letters were sent to the government of Nova Scotia through the Nova Scotia Needs Midwives campaign asking for expanded midwifery services in the province. Midwives' scope of practice is currently limited to care of pregnant, labouring, and postpartum adults, and newborns to six weeks only. However, even within this limited scope, midwives could be filling numerous gaps within the health care system.

[Page 436]

Pregnant people all across the province are reporting challenges in accessing routine perinatal care, particularly in rural areas where distance to care, or transportation can be a significant barrier, midwives can bridge the gap and ensure people have the care they need close to home. Midwives' ability to provide care in the community can eliminate barriers for some of the most vulnerable pregnant people who may not otherwise be able to receive care.

There's no standard of care in Nova Scotia for postpartum care. A recent study found highly inconsistent access to postpartum care throughout the province, citing a mean time of 8.7 days postpartum for the first follow-up visit, but high variability between communities and providers. This can lead to unnecessary use of emergency departments, particularly for postpartum people without family physicians. People with midwifery care are 22 per cent less likely to use emergency departments in the first six weeks after birth.

Last year, a FOIPOP request made by the NDP discovered that nearly 16 per cent of babies born in Nova Scotia were referred to an unattached newborn clinic. No data are available on how many of those referred were actually able to attend the clinic or whether babies continued to go without care when they are unattached to a health home. Routine visits in the home by midwives in the early weeks of babies' lives detect issues early, promote breastfeeding - which in turn reduces the incidence of chronic disease later in life, a significant burden on Nova Scotia's health care system - and facilitates parent-infant bonding by minimizing disruption. Midwives' 24/7 call availability to answering parents' questions and addressing concerns keeps babies out of emergency departments and builds parenting self-efficacy, creating stronger families.

Midwives are trained to do more than provide perinatal care. Comprehensive sexual and reproductive health care including services like cancer screening, testing, and treatment for sexually transmitted infections, and sexual health and health relationship counselling are all well within midwives' competencies and indeed are provided by midwives in most of the world. If midwifery's scope of practice were expanded to reflect midwives' existing competencies, midwives could be filling gaps in the health care system across the province. Routine sexual and reproductive health care is often unavailable in rural areas, where women's health clinics may be open as seldom as once a year.

Untreated infections and undetected cancer can have serious, long-term effects on Nova Scotians' health, as well as on health care resources when they require specialist care due to exacerbation over time. Midwives in Nova Scotia are highly educated, experienced, and ready to work. Nova Scotia has an opportunity to be a leader in Canada by ensuring that midwives are used to their full potential. This would relieve the burden on physicians from emergency departments to family practices and help women and their families get the high-quality care they deserve.

As the former health critic for the NDP, I have questioned the minister many, many times in budget Estimates and on the floor in Question Period about midwifery services, and the answer that I've been given has always been, in my opinion, wholly inadequate. The minister talks about how difficult it is to fill the jobs that are posted in Nova Scotia, and that may be true, but the reason those jobs are hard to fill is pretty obvious. That is that there has been no robust expansion of midwife programs, so the jobs that are available are asking people to come and be midwives with very little support in the community. With just another midwife or two midwives in a rural community that serves thousands and thousands of people, it would be very difficult to be able to do that job without burning out really, really fast. People know that. Midwives know that.

[Page 437]

[3:00 p.m.]

The minister needs to actually grapple with the question: Why are we not robustly expanding midwifery in Nova Scotia? It would save the health care system hundreds of thousands of dollars, and millions of dollars over time, I am sure. It would reduce visits to the emergency room. It would make for healthier pregnancies.

A very high percentage of surgeries in Nova Scotia are due to C-sections. We know that midwifery care reduces the occurrence of C-sections by a huge proportion. That in and of itself would save thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars in Nova Scotia.

We can talk about money all we want, but we also want to make sure that people are having healthy pregnancies and healthy births, and that babies and parents are able to bond well after birth. All of it is improved by the contribution of midwives. Expanding midwifery care supports families and strengthens communities, and if we want our province to grow and thrive, midwifery care needs to be accessible to all through a robust expansion in the program.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

KENDRA COOMBES « » : Speaker, this is my annual municipal funding speech into Supply. I rise today for the fifth year in a row to discuss various funding issues facing municipalities. I have spoken many times on this topic because it is an important issue that deserves the attention of this House. As a former councillor and now five years as the Nova Scotia NDP municipal affairs critic, I have seen municipal units fighting for scraps of money due to the lack of funding.

Municipal units frequently compete over small pots of money via grants because the large pot of cash - the Municipal Capacity Grant, also known as equalization - has stayed the same since 1995-96. Even after the last review in 2023, the monies have continued to stay the same. The PC government chose to continue using the same pot of money it used since the 1990s. There are people in this Chamber who were just infants and children going to Primary school when this money was allocated.

In the first year of this government, I was excited and believed we were moving in the right direction to provide more funding for municipal units. Unfortunately, with the new MOU in 2023, that would not be the case. On November 9, 2023, during third reading of the municipal MOU, I watched in this House as the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing disrespected the residents of CBRM by calling them a distraction.

[Page 438]

The level of disrespect this Progressive Conservative government has shown the residents of my community was shameless. What frustrates me is that many of the recommendations provided after months of work, negotiations, surveys, and eventually the recommendations from the service exchange renegotiation and Municipal Government Act review had no real follow-through.

The Minister of Municipal Affairs and the Premier ignored many proposals in the SERMGAR report. One noticeable thing about the MOU was that it did not include increasing the Municipal Financial Capacity Grant funding. This amount has been stagnant since the 1990s. The PC government and the CBRM MLAs on the government side campaigned to increase the Financial Capacity Grant, only to fail to do so when the time came.

It is unfathomable. Not only did they not double the capacity grant and have no new funds added, but they patted themselves on the back for it. Instead, the existing pot of money from 1995-96 was reworked and redistributed to let the minister pick the winners and the losers. The losers here would include the Cape Breton Regional Municipality and the residents of the CBRM.

Under the new proposed formula - the now actual formula - the CBRM will receive less equalization funding than they have in the past. This government, though, did agree to top them up but only to their previous total and only for five years.

The CBRM is not alone in this. Seventeen other municipalities are expected to receive less funding. When everything was rising, this government decided to keep the 1995 money and redistribute it rather than add new money. Meanwhile, the federal equalization transfer to the province significantly increased. Nova Scotia will receive about $3.4 billion in federal equalization payments this year, yet they have kept their own provincial equalization money frozen. There's something very wrong with that math. I like to call it PC math.

This has created a situation where municipal staff spend much of their time chasing various funding streams and writing grants and proposals when other important work must be done. Municipalities are required to balance their budgets that, due to a lack of revenue, often need more revenue to avoid the budget shortfalls. This lack of funding limits municipal units' choices to improve their communities. Municipal units want to avoid raising property tax rates because they know the rates are too high. They want to be able to provide comparable tax rates with comparable services, yet the Minister of Municipal Affairs suggested that the municipal units should and could increase tax rates.

The lack of funding means municipalities cannot properly improve infrastructure - roads, water, and sewer, for example. It has created an inability for municipal governments to build more sidewalks, especially in the rural areas. It has created an inability for municipal units to afford to expand municipal water to the rural areas. The lack of revenue means municipal units cannot provide more accessible recreation and indoor and outdoor facilities. The lack of revenue means it is difficult for smaller, more economically challenged areas to retain their younger population and recruit newcomers to the area.

[Page 439]

Residents are entitled to comparable services at a comparable tax rate. Some residents and municipal units would agree that the services residents receive differ from the tax rate they pay. Over the years, there have been disagreements on the appropriate level of funding. Still, people can agree that municipal units need to receive more equalization funding. That would enable municipal units to provide comparable services at comparable tax rates.

Municipalities need financial help, to put it simply. Instead, this government plans to continue to make more municipalities share the same 1995-96 dollars. The Progressive Conservative government should have increased the amount of money allocated to the equalization fund.

The Nova Scotians for Equalization Fairness group has requested accountability for and transparency of the government's federal equalization funding of 23.1 per cent, approximately, generated out of the municipal units to provide comparable services at comparable tax rates. This group is looking to know and see where the federal government's equalization money is being allocated. Before 2013, this information was readily available to the public. Under the Liberals, it disappeared, and it continues to remain hidden.

When we see extremely high tax rates, as we have seen in the CBRM, can this Progressive Conservative government tell me that we are receiving comparable services at comparable tax rates? The answer, I can tell you, is no - not with a straight face.

Before I start concluding my remarks, I want to talk about another area where municipalities are shortchanged in the funding department, and that is through the cannabis tax money. Before cannabis became legal, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, the provinces, and the federal government agreed that, instead of a 50/50 split between the government and the provinces, the feds would take 25 per cent, giving the provinces 75 per cent, with the agreement that 25 per cent of the provinces' 75 per cent would go to municipal units.

Instead of allocating the 25 per cent to the municipal units and working with the municipal units to devise a formula, this government continues to make municipalities show the receipts and prove costs. That was not the federal government's agreement with the provinces when it agreed to reduce its revenue from 50 per cent to 25 per cent. This has created unnecessary administrative burdens on municipalities and police departments, and it was not in good faith.

[3:15 p.m.]

As I start to close my remarks, I want to turn my attention back to the CBRM. The uniqueness of the CBRM includes heavy debt load. When the CBRM had forced amalgamation, the debts of the amalgamated were not forgiven, yet other municipalities that have consolidated have had incentives provided to them. Had the CBRM been provided that same opportunity during amalgamation, the financial situation they are in now could have been avoided.

[Page 440]

Other unique circumstances were the outmigration, the slow economic growth, and infrastructure deficits that were incurred. This all impacts the viability of the CBRM, the second-largest municipality and the second-largest population centre. It is currently receiving approximately half the Municipal Capacity Grant funds - again, in 1995-96 dollars.

CBRM is growing, but we need help. We need an increase in equalization funding. That is the light at the end of this tunnel. For years, our party has advocated for equalization and fairness and investments into the viability of CBRM in light of its unique circumstances. I am proud to be a part of that. I am pleased to have had my name on bills that have been on the order papers that include better funding arrangements for the CBRM. What this PC government did I found to be a slap in the face. I still feel that sting two years onwards.

In closing, I would welcome a substantive budget line that increases the municipal equalization program. The fact that the PC government can continue to use 1995-96 dollars in 2025 is ridiculous. I do not understand how this PC government can justify it. In closing, I would also ask and welcome this government to implement the SERMGAR report in full. With that, I conclude my fifth annual speech into Supply on municipal funding.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Colchester North.

TOM TAGGART « » : I usually just sit and partially listen to some of these statements that are made by some of the members across the way. I tuned into this one a little bit. I've had 12 years in municipal representation and fully understand the challenges that municipalities face. I do recall that we debated this for hours and hours in the last - I think it was the Spring sitting. I can't recall exactly, but we would debate this, and the bells would ring for an hour, somebody else would filibuster for an hour, then the bells would ring for an hour.

There are a couple of things there that I think, if I heard correctly, need to be straightened out. I want to talk a little bit about an error there with respect to Canada's formula. It is factual that the federal government told us, when I was at the Federation of Canadian Municipalities at the time, it was 75 per cent to the province, 25 per cent for themselves, and that the province was to give us municipalities at that time 25 per cent. That's what they told us, but that's not what they did. That's not representative of - the fact is that the contract that they signed with the Province made no mention whatsoever of having to give it 25 per cent.

I just want to point out those things, because sometimes, the member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier's memory is not any better than mine. Last week, just to give some examples of where there may have been stuff that wasn't correct in her latest comments - maybe somebody should fact-check them - but last week, the member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier confessed to carrying the green rule book around like a bible. She also said that the fact that the rule changes were put in the form of a resolution and not a bill was a way for this government to somehow evade scrutiny.

[Page 441]

I urge you to direct the member's attention to the facing page to the table of contents of the green book she carries around with her like a bible. If anybody wanted to look at that, they would see, and the member would see, that there is a list of 19 dates in the front of that. That would be March 6, 1981, March 25, 1983, March 22, 1984, May 23, 1986, March 12, 1987, June 14, 1990, September 14, 1993, and again on November 16, 1993. This is all on that facing page that is being carried around as a bible. I will skip to the bottom. The last time it was October 13, 2022. There were 19 dates on that and not one of the changes done by rules on these dates was done by legislation. That leads me to believe that it is possible that she didn't understand what she read or possibly didn't care to understand what she read.

The accusations that were made in this House last Thursday by the member were not factual. Whether it was an error or not reading that bible she carries with her, none of those changes were done and therefore the legislation that she was criticizing here in this House she missed the point on.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sackville-Cobequid.

PAUL WOZNEY « » : Point of order, Speaker, but is it parliamentary to suggest that someone has presented something that is not factual intentionally in the House?

THE SPEAKER « » : When you are making rulings on a point of order, it has to do with how they say something. In no way did that member say that the other member intentionally misled. He had stated misunderstood, may not have read it correctly, yada, yada, yada. I know you've been here for a long time now (laughs), but I trust in the decisions made by the Clerk and myself when it comes to things like that.

The honourable member for Cumberland North.

ELIZABETH SMITH-MCCROSSIN « » : I will just stand and speak in Supply and respond to the budget on behalf of the people of Cumberland North.

Cumberland North is an incredible place. We are rich in history and beautiful in nature and, of course, bordering the province next door of New Brunswick. We have unique challenges that most other people in the province do not understand. Since I've been a member here in this House, we have gone through a pandemic where the people in our area suffered greatly because of the proximity to the border that we live in.

Today the Premier announced removing interprovincial barriers and I am really, really excited about this because there are long-standing barriers between our provinces that have caused hardship for our area, and I am really looking forward to seeing those being removed.

[Page 442]

When I say that we are rich in history, with the interesting time that we are facing due to the President to the south, it is an interesting - I just wanted to bring up how both Sir Charles Tupper and Joseph Howe who, of course, had opposing views on Confederation, and both were MLAs from Cumberland, at different times both served for our area. Sir Charles Tupper, when he represented Cumberland here in Nova Scotia, led us to Confederation, and so we are very proud of our rich history in Cumberland County.

I bring up that we have unique needs and it is very important that we have a government that is responsive to those needs. Cumberland, for decades, I would say, has not received its fair share of infrastructure funding for whatever reason, and we don't always understand that. Decisions have been made in the past that have caused direct harm to the people of our area. Of course, one of the most obvious ones was the placement of tolls on the Cobequid Pass, where the people of our area had to pay an extra tax to travel the province, whether they were going to a medical appointment in Halifax or travelling to see family in another part of the province.

If they chose not to take the Pass and went through the Wentworth Valley, they went through an area of roadway, where - as far as I know it's still this way - the speed limit was decreased and the Highway 104 Western Alignment Corporation actually paid for extra law enforcement to patrol that roadway, to give speeding tickets, as a way of pressuring people to take the toll highway.

Someone did a FOIPOP, and they looked at the number of policing hours in the Wentworth Valley. It was quite shocking. The people in our area did finally get the tolls removed for our people, but the speed limit in the Wentworth Valley still hasn't increased; based on provincial standards, it's still decreased.

This is an example of an interprovincial barrier, Speaker. Once the Premier removed the tolls for the people whom I represent in Cumberland, I let the issue go because there are so many other things that I wish I could be working on. I do bring this up today because it is an interprovincial barrier. People outside of the province still have to pay a toll to go through Nova Scotia. I'm hoping that is one of the things that the Premier will be looking at removing as part of his work going forward.

We need to find ways to make Canada more profitable, especially with the impending threats of the Trump tariffs. Removing all of the barriers that impede trade and economic prosperity between our provinces is very important.

Responding to the budget, Speaker, one of my concerns is the debt load that Nova Scotia is taking on. If you look at the line items where interest payments are the fifth largest expenditure for the Province moving forward and look at the projections of provincial debt over the next four to five years, it's astronomical how much money our province is going to be taking on in debt.

[Page 443]

When you look at the possible economic downturn due to the tariffs, many economists are very concerned as well.

Of course, there have been a lot of conversations over the last week about the Auditor General's role here in the province. I will just highlight once again that the Auditor General has made recommendations, that have been ignored, to bring Nova Scotia in step with the rest of Canada with regard to how spending is done outside of the budget. Over $1 billion annually - I believe it's between 8 and 10 per cent of budget - here in the province of Nova Scotia is being sent out with no legislative oversight. This is not good spending, not good, responsible government and something that the Auditor General has, again, recommended that we make changes on. I think most Nova Scotians would as well.

We're going through the budgetary process now; we're all going through Estimates, but I can't help but wonder what its purpose is, when we all know that the numbers being presented to us - if what we've seen over the last three years continues moving forward, the numbers that we've been given are not reflective at all of what the actual spending will be.

I do support the Auditor General's recommendations to change the Finance Act and to improve legislative oversight for spending of taxpayers' dollars here in the province of Nova Scotia.

There are some things in the budget that I had asked for on behalf of the people I represent. I was happy to see them. One was the increase in the basic personal tax exemption. That has been needed for a long time. The previous government really should have increased that.

One thing that is missing, unless I am misunderstanding it, it doesn't appear that the basic personal tax exemption is going to be indexed. Most economists would recommend that. It would be an easy thing to change, to amend in this budget: that is to index the basic personal tax exemption. It would prevent the government from having to look at it again in a couple of years, and it would automatically go up; similar to what the government has done with income tax brackets. That's something we've also been asking for for years. Both basic personal tax exemption and income tax brackets should be indexed annually, based on CPI.

[3:30 p.m.]

The shingles vaccine is something that people have been asking for for several years as well. I'm happy to see this in the budget, but I will add that the clinical guidelines are that it's recommended for people 50 and over to receive the shingles vaccine, and this budget is only covering it for people who are 65 and older. It is something I would recommend the government change in this budget before it is passed - to amend that. Based on clinical guidelines, to provide the shingles vaccine to people who are 50 and over, not 65 and older.

[Page 444]

The small business tax rates are welcome, and the increased income threshold is a welcome step for entrepreneurs. The one thing that the budget is missing, surprisingly, is any funding for the protection of the Chignecto Isthmus. We are the gateway, the key economic gateway for all Nova Scotians, up in Cumberland County. The Chignecto Isthmus is, of course, a piece of land that connects Nova Scotia with New Brunswick and has had Acadian dikes in places since the 1600s that protect the Isthmus from flooding.

Those dikes have had repairs done over the last 400 or 500 years. Due to rising sea levels and increased instances of storms that we're experiencing, the Isthmus needs greater protection from excessive catastrophic flooding that will take out not only the Trans-Canada Highway, but utility infrastructure, as well as telecommunications infrastructure, and will have catastrophic economic impact on the people of Nova Scotia.

While the Trump tariffs pose a real threat, we know that if the Chignecto Isthmus experiences the catastrophic flooding that has been predicted, we know that it will cause an economic catastrophe for our province. In fact, the outgoing chair of the Port of Halifax - I believe it was about four years ago now, maybe three - in his remarks when he was outgoing chair said that the biggest threat to the port is the Chignecto Isthmus. It was identified by the United Nations as the second-greatest threat in the world due to climate change, several years ago.

We keep seeing delays on any investment. It will be 10 more years and 10 more years. Well, that was three or four years ago. There was an announcement right before the election of a $2 million berm so that no one could say during the election that nothing was being done, but if you look at their engineering report about the Chignecto Isthmus and the work that's needed, nothing in the report talks about a berm and the need for a berm being built.

The work wasn't tendered, so local contractors; the contract was given to a local company, which was nice, but it wasn't tendered. There were a lot of contractors unhappy because they weren't given the opportunity to bid on that work. We're happy that something is being done but my concern is that it was done more for political purposes than actual protection of the Isthmus. That is not what's needed.

What we need is the work to be done that the engineers have recommended, and that is the strengthening of the existing dikes. They need to be built stronger. They need to be built higher. In one place there is the Missaguash River, as well as the LaPlanche River, and in one area in the engineering report they recommend steel reinforcement.

In the initial report, it estimated between $200 million and $300 million to get the work done. I know that the Premier had made a decision that Nova Scotia was not going to invest in this work. He has taken it to court to ask the federal government to pay all the money, and the federal government have been pretty emphatic that they are willing to pay for 50 per cent. New Brunswick has already signed on. They're willing to pay for 25 per cent.

[Page 445]

My concern is that the delays could lead to catastrophic consequences here in Nova Scotia. I don't believe we can afford to continue delaying the work that's needed at the Chignecto Isthmus. I believe that's a glaring deficiency in this budget. Yes, it's a lot of money. Some people are saying it's going to be $600 million to fix it now, so if we pay 25 per cent, that's what - $150 million? If you look at the federal transfers that this province is getting, $150 million is a pretty small amount in comparison.

There's much more that I can say about this budget, and I will take an opportunity to do that at a future date.

THE SPEAKER « » : The motion is carried.

We will have a short recess while the committee sets up.

[3:45 p.m. The House resolved into the CWH on Supply with Deputy Speaker Tom Taggart in the Chair.]

[8:05 p.m. CWH on Supply rose and the House reconvened with the Speaker in the Chair.]

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. The Chair of the Committee of the Whole House on Supply reports:

THE CLERK » : That the Committee of the Whole House on Supply has met and made some progress and begs leave to sit again.

THE SPEAKER « » : Is it agreed? It is agreed.

The honourable Deputy House Leader.

MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD » : Speaker, would you please call order of business Government Motions.

[GOVERNMENT MOTIONS]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable Deputy House Leader.

MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD « » : Speaker, would you please call Resolution No. 5.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I also want to thank the member for Cumberland North for giving me two minutes to get started the other night. We appreciate that. I did just get started, and I referred to the member for Sackville-Cobequid's speech, which I actually thought was a well-written speech. I thought he made several good points. I don't agree with a lot of the points he made, but I thought it was sincere.

[Page 446]

I am going to discuss what I believe is really happening in terms of this resolution and why we are taking the steps we are. There has also been some criticism of how we're doing this. I'm going to talk about the what, why, and how in the next few minutes. I hope I can clear up some misconceptions that may have been relayed by the Opposition.

I mentioned that in response to the member's speech - the member for Sackville-Cobequid - where he relayed some quotes from Shakespeare. Romeo and Juliet was highly quoted. I talked about how my favourite play by William Shakespeare, of course, was Hamlet, and my favourite quote was, Thou "doth protest too much." That is what I really think is happening here.

Criticisms that this is a draconian measure, that it is an attack on democracy, that we are somehow disrupting a normal parliamentary procedure - I'm going to argue that that is paramountly false. It's a falsehood. It's not true, unless you think that Premier Eby in British Columbia, an NDP Premier, and his previous premier, Premier Horgan, who took office in 2017 - where they have used time allocation and closure many times. If you don't think using those types of procedures in a House - if you think it's draconian or you think it's undemocratic, then they are really criticizing that whole legislature for putting those rules in place and particularly those premiers for using them. I don't think that.

Then let's look at the House of Commons. In the House of Commons, closure and time allocation was first brought in in 1968 and 1969. Who were the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition at the time: Pierre Elliot Trudeau and our own Robert Stanfield. Do you think they're going to sit in a House that is undemocratic? Robert Stanfield, the greatest premier Nova Scotia has ever had, in my opinion.

Time allocation and closure continued in the House of Commons. It was revisited and updated in 1987, and it has been used by both the Liberals and the Progressive Conservatives - later the Conservatives. I think the House of Commons is a place of great democracy. Time allocation and closure don't limit democracy. They're tools a government uses and are used in many legislatures all over Canada. They're also used in legislatures around the world.

Let's move to Westminster, the place that all the legislatures in Canada were first modelled after. Time allocation and closure were first put in place in Westminster in 1910. The Minister of Finance and Treasury Board remembers. (Laughter) Since 1910 in Westminster, those measures have been used. England is a pretty democratic place. They managed to get through the First World War shortly after. They got through the Second World War. They got through the IRA crisis and the pandemic. They have always been able to use time allocation, closure, and other parliamentary techniques. I don't think you can criticize those Houses for being undemocratic. In fact, they really are the paramount of democracy, just like this Legislature is and just like it will be.

[Page 447]

In Westminster in 2000, just after the turn of the millennium, they actually looked at all the rules of Westminster and updated them. They had a special committee do that, and they actually took a look at time allocation and closure. They didn't think it was appropriate. In fact, they actually eliminated it. Right now, Westminster, as of today, doesn't have time allocation and closure. What did they replace it with? It's called a program motion. A program motion actually allows the government of the day to assign hours of debate for each stage as a bill becomes a law. The government actually sets the number of hours for a debate before the bill is even on the floor. That's how they do things in England, the birthplace of how we modelled our legislatures across Canada, including the House of Commons.

I think I've established now that this isn't about a fall of democracy. This isn't about draconian measures. What is this really about? It's about a government, a majority government, having the ability to get its mandate and its agenda through. I'll circle back to that.

Many of us got to go home on the weekend. I went home and saw my family. I'm very lucky to have my two-year-old granddaughter living in my home. I get to read books to her. It's one of the most pleasurable things I have. As an educator and a teacher, I like to encourage literacy amongst my grandchildren. I was reading books - we talked about Shakespeare. Another great literary book that I was able to pull up and read with my two-year-old granddaughter was Joseph Jacobs's famous children's book, Chicken Little. We all remember Chicken Little. "The sky is falling, the sky is falling." That's what I hear from Opposition.

You'd think time allocation and you'd think closure were the worst things that could possibly happen. It really sounds to me like Chicken Little - what Jacobs said. As I was reading this to her - she liked it because of the pictures of the chicken - it kept dawning on me. This seems so familiar to me. I've heard it all week long. It's, "The sky is falling." The sky is not falling. These are normal parliamentary procedures. They exist all over. All we're doing is updating the rules and modernizing them. There are several rules we're updating and changing. I can tell you just this week, once again the Premier showed that he's open to listen. He's going to hear people's concerns. If he thinks things are not exactly right, he's flexible and open to changing. I really think the Premier deserves credit for what he did here yesterday.

I know that the member for Cumberland North - who's a good friend of mine - she talked about how the Opposition doesn't have many tools and how this resolution changes their ability to use some of the tools they have. It limits the amount of time, but time allocation - there's still going to be time for debate. When I was a Member of Parliament in the House of Commons, we had time allocation and closure, but there was always time to debate. It was just a set amount of time, so you had to be frugal with your time, and you had to get to the point.

You couldn't slow things down and disrupt the whole process and try to speak too long on one bill, which blocked another bill that was coming later on, which is the one they really wanted to stop. It's a way for government to get the mandate and agenda that people gave them through without being obstructed.

[Page 448]

Does time allocation and closure - is it used on every bill, every piece of legislation that goes through? No. That's not how it works. It's actually used quite rarely. When is it used? If you look at legislatures across the world, legislatures across Canada, governments use time allocation and closure when it's a contentious issue that an opposition - who is typically a minority - is using a lot of tactics to try to disrupt and obstruct an agenda. That can go too far.

I think in this Legislature, there have been times when all three parties have seen oppositions take bold action which disrupts the agenda and an effort by a duly elected, majority government to get their mandate through. That's when you'll see time allocation and closure used in this Legislature. That's not a scary thing.

I do believe that, in the current situation we face now, when you have a government with 43 out of 55 seats, the people of Nova Scotia have elected a party led by a Premier who has seats in rural Cape Breton, urban Cape Breton, rural Nova Scotia, and in metro Halifax. We're the only party here that has members who represent the entire province. The people sent us here to do a job, and we're going to do it. It's a normal parliamentary tool.

[8:15 p.m.]

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. I ask the member for Halifax Needham to stop eating in the Chambers. Please and thank you.

The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: That's a bit about what's happening here. The sky is not falling. This isn't some new thing that the Progressive Conservative Party of Nova Scotia just dreamt up, and we're going to do this. This is a common tool governments have. They use it when there are extreme situations and opposition parties are taking liberties and doing things that are truly obstructive. I doubt you'll see it used a lot here in the Legislature, but there are big challenges this province faces. We all know that. Since January 20^th, we really know it.

Now I am going to get to the second part of my comments, which is: Why do we have to have this resolution? Why do we have to have these measures in place? Well, Nova Scotia is a place where we have low wages, high taxes, huge demographic challenges, and a recent report showing that we were 60^th out of 60 jurisdictions in North America in terms of per capita GDP growth. Einstein said that if you keep doing the same things the same way, you're going to get the same results. We need to do things differently, and we need different results for Nova Scotia.

Change is tough. I said that the last time I spoke. Change is tough, but change is a necessity here in Nova Scotia. We have incredible potential. We have everything right here in this province to make our province a have province, to make our future truly bright and prosperous. All we have to do is have the political will, the social licence, and the intestinal fortitude to get it done. I can tell you that this government and these 43 members have that.

[Page 449]

Prior to the President of the United States being inaugurated, we got awfully used to relying on our trade with the United States. In Nova Scotia, we've been working hard, we educated our kids, and we took care of our seniors.

I want to credit the Minister of Health and Wellness for defending the Estimates. My goodness, she did a great job.

There are some big challenges we face as a province. I'm not saying we were ignoring them; I'm saying we were kind of satisfied to make small changes. Then, with the incoming administration in the United States, it really showed us: Wow, we need to change what we're doing here because we can no longer count on north-south trade like we really have since Confederation of Canada.

Change is a must and change we will.

When I look at the relationship between Canada and the United States, it's always been our best friend. We travel back and forth. I don't know how many of you people did this when you were young, but I can remember going to Maine on March Break, going down to the Bangor Mall and buying a bunch of stuff, and then my dad stopping just before the border with his scissors, cutting the tags off so you didn't have to claim them.

Some of you guys knew my dad. That was my dad. He still had his first dollar he ever made; that was what he was like. Many families were like that.

That was trade barriers. Then we had free trade, and things changed, but things have changed again. We can no longer count on the United States being as close a friend as they've been.

One of my favourite singers is a guy named Lewis Capaldi, and many of you would have heard of him. The song I like is Someone You Loved. And it says, "The day bleeds into nightfall" and he talks about "then you pulled the rug . . . used to being someone you loved." It's a great song, and he's a great singer, but it talks about a relationship that's breaking up. That's what I feel right now with the United States.

I think, just like all relationships that break up, we can put it back together. We can reunite. But you can't count on it. So it's our responsibility - in fact it's every province and the federal government's responsibility to do what's right for our people, and make sure we take the necessary steps to protect ourselves and protect our economy and protect our future in case this relationship doesn't ever get back together the way it was.

If we let this moment pass us by, and we do not take these necessary steps, that's on us. We are failing this generation and next generations of Nova Scotians and we will not shirk that responsibility. We will do what it takes to support this generation and future generations by taking necessary steps. That's why we're putting this resolution together. We have the tools as a government to take the necessary steps to modernize our economy, support our Minister of Finance and Treasury Board in his budget, support our Premier and support the future of our province. That is why we are doing this.

[Page 450]

We're lifting bans. We're tearing down internal trade barriers between provinces. We're talking about modernizing our education system, supporting increases in our health care system. We need an education system. We have a great Minister of Advanced Education. I'm going to talk about two members of my family, because we need an education system that's going to help us move to the next stage of our economy.

The first one is - some people say, kids today, they don't know what they're doing. They don't work hard. They've got their phones out. You can't hire them. They won't show up to work. Well, my nephew Colton is part of the new economy. He is what they call an influencer. About 2018 he went off to Acadia University, and he was a photographer, he was a gymnast; he's very popular with his peers. He's got a lot of skills. He went off to Acadia, and he was taking business, and it was okay.

He came back at Thanksgiving, and he said: You know what? I'm going to keep going to school and keep doing business, but I want to use these skills I'm learning for my business classes to actually help me become an influencer. I didn't know what that was. I asked, What's an influencer? And he said, Well, you go online, and you get followers, and then you can sell advertisements, and that's how you monetize. He explained it all out to me, and I didn't know what he was talking about. I really didn't.

I started looking into this, because I quite like him. He's a smart young guy. It sounded to me like - you know how when sometimes kids come to you saying, I want to be a rock star so I'm quitting school, and I'm going to join a band. And the parents flip out. You see that in old movies. Well, that's kind of what that conversation was like. I said, You know what, he's too smart to just throw his life away. I'll see what he's up to.

He's on TikTok. I know TikTok has got some issues. Hopefully that all works out. Today, that young man has 10.2 million followers on TikTok. He travels around the world. He goes to places where he meets other influencers, and companies send him. Those influencers get together and they make content, they call it. He's a content creator.

He uses his knowledge of video; he uses his knowledge of pictures; he uses his knowledge of pop culture. I don't understand half the videos. I don't know why they're funny, but there's 10.2 million followers that do. I can tell you, he is monetizing that by selling advertising, by doing live feeds. That is the new economy.

So when people criticize young people - and as a high school principal, there's nothing wrong with young people today. It's really us, not them. They've got their side gigs. They've got their plans. They've got their dreams just like you all did when you were in high school. But there's a new economy, and a new way, and we need an education system that's designed to support them to get those skills, so they can exploit the new economy.

[Page 451]

We need to up our game in terms of what we've offering them. To make an omelette, you've got to break some eggs and we're going to break some eggs here if we're going to design a system that can support young students as they go through to give them the digital skills to exploit a new economy. All the credit to him, but there are thousands of kids like that that are trying to make their way through the digital economy, and many of them are going to make it. We need to be able to support them. I don't think we're doing enough as a society to support this next generation.

The second member in my family I'm going to talk about - and he's a tradesperson - is my son. He's a Red Seal electrician. He went through school. He was a good student, and he decided to take trades. In my school, we push trades. We're rural. We're pushing trades. He took a trade; he got his Red Seal, and he was working in Nova Scotia, but he was having a hard time getting a lot of money for the jobs he was getting paid for. He decided to take a chance and he went out west. Some of his friends were out there. He was 23 years old, and he did very well.

He's now worked for over ten years in the oil sands. He flies back and forth. He's 14 days out west, and he comes back and stays for seven. When he was in his late 20s, he actually moved out there and stayed out there, but he wants to come back, get married, raise a family, and bring them up in Nova Scotia. That was the dream. That's what he wants to do. But boy, the opportunity cost to do that, to leave that high-paying job out west in the oil and gas industry to come back and do that, it's awfully hard, and he's coming to. . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. I gave leeway yesterday to a member, and I've been giving leeway today. I need you to get back on the amendment.

The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The point of what I'm saying now is we have to make tough choices and big changes to embrace the economy of the future, and these are decisions we have to make. We have thousands of young people like my son who have had to leave Nova Scotia and work out west because we didn't develop the resources here in Nova Scotia that God put under our feet. That is a choice this government is going to make so that we can protect ourselves from the tariffs by diversifying our economy, making better use of our natural resources. But you know what? If we do that and we get it right, we're going to be able to bring our people home. That's important because it goes to the next comment I'm going to make.

We have an aging society in Nova Scotia. Our demographics cause us financial issues because we have an aging population that puts more pressure on our health care system. Is it over 50 per cent of our budget now or pretty close, Minister of Finance and Treasury Board? We need to make sure we get our population younger, and one way to do that is to have good-paying, resource-based jobs here in Nova Scotia. Bring our young people back. Train the ones who are in school. The Minister of Advanced Education is going to be doing that. Focus on trades so that we have the workforce we need to develop the resources that are right here. That is one of the challenges. The education system has to be revamped.

[Page 452]

Like I said, to make an omelette, you've got to break some eggs, and I think the Minister of Advanced Education is willing to break those eggs to make that omelette, so we have an education system that's going to support the economy we need and bring our people back home.

The health care system needs work. We are moving it. The numbers are coming. The Need a Family Practice Registry is shrinking, but the younger our population is, the more resources we'll have to put in the health care system so we can take care of the generation that sacrificed so much for this province.

[8:30 p.m.]

Those are the reasons - some of the reasons - why this resolution is here, so that the government has the ability to push our agenda through, to push our mandate through, so we can deal with the threat of the Trump tariffs by insulating ourselves. It's time to put ourselves in an area of responsibility, so we step up, look out for ourselves, and stop blaming others for where we are in Nova Scotia, because we have to look inside. We can do it because we have the resources; we have the people; we have the education, and we have the initiative and the political will to get the job done. I want to thank the Premier who just came in for leading us . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. I ask you to retract that. You're not allowed to state when a member is leaving or coming or not here.

The honourable member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley.

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I retract that. I retract that, Speaker. I apologize.

The last section is how we're doing it. There has been some criticism about how this should be in legislation and this shouldn't be a resolution. There was a comment that we all have this green book and we're changing the rules that are in this green book and that should be done through legislation that should be brought in.

Well, if you turn to the front page of that green book, you can see where it's been revised. It's been revised 19 times since 1981. March 6, 1981; March 25, 1983; March 22, 1984. I won't read them all, but all the way down, the last revision was October 13, 2022. Every time, how was that done? By resolution. We've done it by resolution. Why would we change it? That's how we change the Rules of the House.

We have a strong mandate delivered by the people of Nova Scotia. We have representation in all areas of this province. We're the only political party in Nova Scotia that has representation from every geographic area in this province. We have the leadership we need. We have the vision we need. We have the goals we have set that will lead us into the future. We've got a great budget delivered by a great Minister of Finance and Treasury Board that's going to help us smooth the path forward. We have a plan: a plan to develop our resources, a plan to become self-reliant, a plan to become leaders in this great country.

[Page 453]

I think when we look back at this time in 25 years, we'll say, "Wow, when Trump put those tariffs in, Nova Scotia handled it the best. Nova Scotia had the vision. Nova Scotia had the gumption. Nova Scotia turned a corner and made themselves the greatest province and a have province in this country."

This is the turning point. Speaker, thank you for your time.

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : Speaker, I'll promise to not use that word I used the other night so much and broke the rules. I do want to get up for a few minutes and talk in response to the member for Cumberland South, if I'm correct. (Interruption) Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley, sorry. So sorry. We met many years ago, he and I.

That had absolutely nothing to do with the amendment - the speech. But I will make a few references to the amendment.

Again, I go back to the history of being in here as long as I have, with a few others. The government probably would be through most of its bills right now if it probably just would have followed the regular process instead of trying to change everything. I said this the other night: In politics, suffering can be optional sometimes. We're still here talking about the same resolution when you probably could be through readings of some of the work that the government's putting forward.

I always go back to the great story of wild blueberries in here. Yes, it was a good one. Yes, I see the two members - I'm not allowed to say that. I'm sorry. But they agree.

It was a great story about wild blueberries. You know, I never knew a thing about blueberries until I heard the two riveting - almost like Christmastime, the stories about wild blueberries - from experts too. One expert for sure - a farmer.

The point I'm making is that that's one great example. The current House Leader for the government would still be ringing the bells if he could, from many years ago. He really loved ringing the bells too. It was almost like Christmastime for him to hear the bells ringing. (Laughter)

I've seen the great "filibust" of Law Amendments. Hansard couldn't even keep up with the speech. It was so riveting for all of us who had to sit there and take it for all those hours. The point that I'm trying to make is that when I see this stuff as a guy who's been around - and hey, I've done it. We've given on all sides of the government. We've done it. We've stood in our place and spoken for hours and hours on things that may or may not have anything to do with what we're trying to pass as law, but it was a strategy that all governments did and many members in this House used on all sides.

[Page 454]

So when I see these changes come through - and on the amendment, when we're talking about changing the time - I question the motive behind it because I've seen so many of the government members actually use the time to their advantage. Over the years, they have. For me, I wanted to get on my feet and just mention that. There's a lot of history that comes with being here. I always go back to the wild blueberries. It was an important moment of my political career to learn so much about such an important berry in our province.

There was a lot said by my colleague in his comments. I took a couple of notes about what he said. He did reference that the Opposition will pretend that the sky is falling. Not really. We're going to debate issues. The sky isn't falling on this one for me. There are other issues that I'm more concerned about. For example, and I'll table it - thank you so much to the Legislative Library for doing this - my bigger issue today is I'm reading this article out of the States saying: "The White House moves to pick the pool of reporters who cover Trump." Now we're into the States where they're actually picking reporters, the ones whom they like who are going to report on them.

A letter went out from the party that's currently the government that talks about, Contribute to us so you can block the media. I'm going back to the resolution.

THE SPEAKER « » : Thank you.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : I always respect your ruling, Speaker. We just went through a half-hour of none of the resolution. I'll go to the resolution. I will absolutely go to the resolution. That's a concern for me, when you're talking about this resolution, about the time. People will agree or disagree. As I said, the government - we're here talking about this again, how many nights? We've only been here eight days, so the sky really isn't falling. It's been eight days. Estimates is going on so it's going to take a little bit longer because we have the debate that happens with Estimates.

Again, we're here having a debate about the time. I'm just going through my notes that didn't really talk about the amendment. We heard about trade, and we learned about lifting bans, and we learned about mineral resource development. We learned about being elected on a campaign of health care. I'm again rephrasing what my colleague for Colchester said. I'm trying to tie all of this into the amendment of time.

Again, we've seen multiple people in this place use every tool to their advantage to delay - not delay just for the sake of delaying but delaying because we want to ensure that stakeholders have a chance to be part of the process. You've seen delays with - not Public Accounts. Public Accounts isn't even meeting right now, but we've seen delays with Law Amendments that parties have used in the past where they would pass motions at the end. They would put a motion on the floor at the end to extend time in the Law Amendments Committee. A number of Progressive Conservatives did that over the years. That was kind of one of their strategies back when I started in 2015. It was the best way they could delay at Law Amendments Committee. They would pass motions in the end to extend the time. That's what they did. That was part of their strategy.

[Page 455]

We're in a situation right now where we're debating this amendment to the resolution, and you probably could have been through a chunk of your work by now. There are certain things that the government puts forward and of course we're going to debate, and there are certain things that our caucus supports.

Again, at 8:40 p.m., nothing is moving tonight. We'll go here until 10:00 p.m. There will be debates and nothing else will be moved, when you could have been looking at your bills and going through the motions of trying to get stuff done.

Estimates are going well. I appreciate the ministers and their staff answering all the questions they have. They are defending their budget. We're going to try to poke holes in the budget. There are things we're going to support, and there are things that we won't. This is the process that we always go through.

The member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley talked about being elected with 43 seats and they have a mandate. We've all congratulated the government on that. Again, I just don't understand why the government wants to continue down this road and make all these rule changes when they really don't have to.

I said this last week, Speaker. I said this the other night. The government has seen press release after press release of negative media when, in turn, you would hope any government . . . (Interruption) Well, somebody has something to say, happily stand up and say it.

Instead of hearing more about the budget that they've tabled and talking about some of the things that the government would want to talk about around resource development, which is a whole other debate for another day because I know enough to know that they are creating their own problems for resource development in the province. There's a whole bunch of scenarios there. Again, that's time. We're talking about time tonight.

It's been negative article after negative article about this debate we're having tonight on the resolution, about the relationship with the media, which has been problematic with some correspondence that has gone out. Instead of pushing through their agenda, we are here again tonight talking about this.

I don't understand the government, Speaker - why this is so important to them when they won 43 seats. The government never campaigned on resolutions like tonight where they're going to restrict the time of debate. It's just been negative story after negative story. It put the government on defence right away, instead of being out there talking about their budget.

[Page 456]

THE SPEAKER « » : I understand what the member was doing last night. I understand what the member was doing tonight - trying to tie things in with regard to stories and whatnot. This, I am not understanding quite as much. Let's talk about the resolution, please and thank you.

The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

[8:45 p.m.]

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : I'm trying to tie time into what I'm saying tonight because that's part of the rules - we've got to stay on topic of the resolution. What I'm doing is I'm talking about the timeline that the government has had since this session has started. It has been a timeline of really bad press and it's like unforced errors - it's on them when they really could just being champions. We have a supermajority and we're going to take the win as a government: We're going to be humble about it and we're going to follow the rules that are in place, and we're not going to restrict debate because ultimately, we control 75 per cent of the seats in the House.

We can get pretty heated in here during Question Period. We'll debate the issues and the topics, but I'm just getting on my feet, scratching my head, and saying: We're here debating a resolution on time when you have all the time you need - 43 seats in here. It's really kind of lost on me that we're even having the conversation.

There has been a lot of conversation around the resolution tonight. I'm not questioning your authority in here at all. We've all got to stay on topic on this stuff. It's hard to respond to some of my colleagues' comments because I know I'm going to get called out of order, which is fine, because that's your ruling.

I don't plan on spending an hour doing this because I'm restricted to the resolution. I keep continuously going back to the fact that you could be through bills right now. You could be through business by now. I'm not even coming at this politically or negatively. It's just that for me, I've had the privilege of being here for a while and serving in a couple of positions on the government side and the Opposition side when it comes to House Leader, and those jobs and responsibilities. We've always tried to maintain a positive relationship, even when we were on the government side, with the Opposition to keep the flow of business going. That's ultimately a government decision on how they want to establish that relationship with the rest of the House.

Again, we're here tonight having a conversation about a resolution when you probably could be through a vast majority of your business. You could have done your budget first or gotten into government bills after or vice versa, but you're stuck. You're stuck in this situation right now where, obviously, government's coming forward to change the time of debate. We don't have a lot of information around how that's going to look. I think one of the important questions we want to ask the government is how often and how they'll use it because that's a big question as well.

[Page 457]

All of this doesn't need to be happening. The government will see more negative press for no reason on this resolution again tonight. It makes it a more difficult relationship with the Opposition, whether it's this government or a different government and a different Opposition. The rules have worked the way they have for so long. They've all been used in some way, shape, or form by people in this Legislature - the people before us and the people who will come after us.

Eight days of press where the government has seen terminology used like "shutting out the media" - using, like this resolution, the government trying to reduce time. We've seen it in committees. The government got negative press for the sake of five minutes of questioning by a political party. For what?

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. There's a member speaking.

The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : I would argue that the government does govern by the media, or they wouldn't have changed the Auditor General decision. (Interruption) People are responding, so I'm just responding.

THE SPEAKER « » : I'm asking you to speak about the resolution. I think we all are. I understand how you're trying to tie it back, but I'm asking you to please tie it back. If I hear someone speaking, I'll yell "Order." Please stay on the resolution.

The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE « » : The resolution is about time. To what end would the government want to change this? Governments change and this one will change at some point. The PCs will be on this side of the aisle. They were before; they will be again. I swear it's going to happen. I call it Mother Nature taking her course. That's what happens. It's true. It happens, right? It just does. I was there.

We are talking about this Legislature and the time and the debate and I remember sitting in that corner over there. I remember the Premier sitting right in this chair right there. It's where I met him. I remember that is where I met Larry Harrison. One of the nicest men I've ever met, Larry Harrison. Yes, he was. Yay Larry. (Applause) I know that - there's a guy who could turn the temperature down to 100 degrees - Larry Harrison - a gentleman.

Again, I just don't understand why any of this is necessary. The government never campaigned on this resolution. It never campaigned on reducing the time in committees or reducing the time or setting a time limit on debate. You just don't need to. They have 43 seats, so they can speak all night.

I've taken enough time on this for tonight and I've done my best to navigate the Rules of the House, but again, I'll just say that on this resolution: Why?

[Page 458]

THE SPEAKER « » : You both jumped up at the same time.

The honourable member for Clayton Park West.

ADEGOKE FADARE « » : Today, I rise to speak on the importance of time allocation and how it's necessarily responsible, too, for the legislative process. I just have to make one or two side comments. Listening to members on the other side reminiscing about history and things of old, it is important for us to recognize that the people elected a government that would take them into the future. It is good to talk about the good old days, but it is better for us to talk about the vision that we have been elected to do.

Yesterday we had a good opportunity to learn about - what is it called again? The story of Romeo and Juliet, and we were given a master class on how Romeo fell out of love and fell in love with Juliet. Literature wasn't one of my best subjects so please follow me. I might have to ask you if the member has a class that I could further learn some of those things from. What I was trying to say is it is important for us to understand that within the caucus, within this government, we are loaded with lots of talents. We have the ability to be able to not just juggle balls, to chew the gum, and also walk across the road.

We are able, as a government, to be able to deliver on housing and at the same time deliver on affordability and at the same time be there for the people in rent control. We have the capacity to be able to do all of this all at the same time. We are not choosing one over the other.

I want to say clearly tonight as representatives of the people, it is our duty to govern efficiently, to legislate effectively, and make sure that the critical policies move forward in a timely manner. Time allocation is not about silencing debate because we've heard that time and time again. Rather, it is about assuring that debate serves the true purpose. Every deliberation must lead to action and not just another series of debates.

Speaker, we were elected to deliver results to our constituencies. Without a structured process for debate, we risk a legislative gridlock where important views will be delayed indefinitely, not because of constructive debate, but because of unnecessary procedural stalling. We must recognize that while debate is fundamental as part of our democracy, endless debate with no resolution undermines democracy.

Time allocation ensures that legislative processes stay on track so that policies that benefit families and businesses and communities are not lost in procedural delays.

Time allocation is a tool that ensures government can fulfill their mandate while still allowing for meaningful debate. Without it, public trust in our ability to govern effectively declines. History has shown us that (inaudible), regardless of political stripes, abuse filibustering as a tactic to stall legislation rather than to improve it. This is not a matter of silencing the Opposition but rather ensuring that all members have the opportunity to speak within a reasonable time.

[Page 459]

When the time is allocated properly, members prioritize their arguments, and they will engage in focused, substantive discussions rather than prolonged rhetoric. This will ensure that the time of this House is used effectively, allowing us to debate on multiple bills and issues that affect the citizens of Nova Scotia.

We're here to serve the people. We're not here to delay processes or (inaudible) procedural roadblocks. My colleague on the other side has spoken about the United Kingdom and Australia and all the Westminster-style democracies that have long implemented time-management rules to ensure legislative productivity. The U.K. Parliament uses program motions, and the Australian uses the guillotine procedure, both of which have helped maintain balance between debate and decision-making, and their democracies are alive and thriving. I daresay if all these democracies can manage debate efficiently while respecting opposition voices, so can we here in Nova Scotia.

Time allocation is not an attack on democracy. They painted it in the tabloids and echoed it in different places. It's a tool to strengthen democracy. It ensures that we respect the rights of members to debate while upholding our responsibility to govern. It is a practical and fair approach that allows us in this House to function as we should, with both discussion and decisive decision. We must govern with purpose and ensure our time is spent on meaningful - underline that, meaningful - discussions that lead to action. Time allocation is necessary to ensure our laws are debated fairly, passed efficiently, and implemented effectively. Our democracy depends not only on debates - because we hear that often - but on decisions that impact the lives of those we serve.

I stand today on this night - I'm not even sure what time it is anymore - to support time allocation as a responsible, democratic, and essential measure for governance. It's time for us to not just speak about the good old days. One of the members opposite who spoke at length literally read his speech of 2019 - I can't remember what year that speech was. Nova Scotians are not asking us to go back to the past. Nova Scotians have elected a government to take them into the future.

They have elected a Premier whom they believe in, and the mandate is loud and clear. We're not trying to shove that down anybody's throat, but it is the reality. We have a job to do, and we're ready to do that job. I want you to support us in the process. (Standing ovation)

[9:00 p.m.]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

LINA HAMID « » : Before I get started, I'd like to - if it's all right - address some of the other things that were said today. I do appreciate that you requested the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley to bring any of those 30 minutes back to the topic that we're talking about. I didn't see the vision, but that's okay.

[Page 460]

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. Order.

LINA HAMID « » : No, I'm not saying that . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, again. You're not allowed to say "you," but if you're questioning my calling out the honourable member, I do not appreciate that - not one bit. Now, a lot of leeway is given in here. We have two Clerks and myself watching everything that's being said, so I suggest that you trust the people who are up here doing their job, just like I trust, when I say "bring it back" to any member, they bring it back. They try to. I will make one more suggestion to you: Everybody's brains think differently, so how they have their analogies or how they wrap things together is going to be different from others.

The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

LINA HAMID « » : I appreciate you, Speaker. I was not questioning the judgment. I said, "I did not see the vision." So once again, it is terrifying that we're making jokes about how these really important tools that the Opposition has to hold the government accountable are "coms tools" or "tactics." It is not often used, because typically there is some sort of understanding that people are able to get to.

However, it seems that what's happening right now is that there's an expectation that these tools are going to be used because this government has taken a 180-degree turn from what they said their priorities are, and they do expect that we are going to use these tools because this is not what they were elected to do. Once again, talking about them having the 43 seats, I would argue that having the lowest turnout of any provincial election in 2024 is not really something to be proud of but, again, that's just me.

So, again, we're talking about modernizing it, trying to make it fast, trying to make it better, trying to make it just like everybody else. I would like to point out that in 2023, while Nova Scotia sat for 24 days, B.C. sat for 80 days, and the House of Commons sat for 101 days, and if we want to go international and talk about New Zealand and England, New Zealand sat for 90 days. We're talking about making things move faster, like a Gen Z-er on TikTok, I think, but "effective" does not mean "fast." It does not mean "new" and just completely changing things the way that they're done. If we are thinking about making things more efficient, I would suggest sitting for more days. If we're going to do things like others, let's do it like others the right way.

There's also quite a bit of talk about how these tools and changing them are non-consequential because, again, they're not typically used. Then why are we spending so much time talking about this when we could be talking about the issues that really matter? Rather than talking about the issues that really matter, as the Opposition, we have been put in a position where we now are forced to have this discussion every night to ensure that the tools that we have to hold this government accountable, to ensure that our constituents' voices are heard, they aren't being taken away. And so, rather than talking about the things that matter, we're here talking about this at 9:04 p.m.

[Page 461]

There's also been a little bit of talk about a social licence. A social licence typically involves acceptance, approval from stakeholders, a perception of impact. It needs a legitimacy study, understanding of stakeholder concerns, addressing impact, a few other things. A social licence is about recognizing that you do not have the right to do whatever you want. It acknowledges that you need the acceptance and the ongoing support of stakeholders to operate.

I had the opportunity yesterday to discuss how we're in this Chamber that holds so much history. This is not to talk about the days that we need to go back to. I, as a woman of colour, would never suggest we go back to 200 years ago. I wouldn't even suggest that we go back to when Robert L. Stanfield was Premier. That was not a good time for people who looked like me either. (Laughs)

What I would say again is while we're not suggesting that things should always stay exactly the way they are, what we're saying is that there should be more collaboration. There should be more talk about how we come at this as Nova Scotians. We can't take bits and pieces from what other governments are doing and try to implement that without really thinking it through. There are lots of other aspects to that.

Now for the potential impact that we're discussing here that Resolution No. 5 would bring, we're obviously delving into the intricacies of the resolution and unpacking all the different parts of it. The part where discussing the time allocation - I don't know. I'm new. I feel like that's the part that really is the most concerning to me.

I will talk about this again because I believe that the experience I bring and the lived experience that I bring as a member is one that has . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order, order. It's a little noisy in here. We have a member who worked very hard to get their position. Let's give them a little respect and keep it quiet.

The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

LINA HAMID « » : Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Again, I'm going to talk about my experiences and how that relates to here because my voice is not one that has been commonly heard in these halls. I will talk again about my experiences.

I had a vision of what democracy looked like and I was genuinely looking forward to being here to discuss the things that really matter to the people of my constituency and that seemed to matter to this government when they released a platform during the election.

Democracy, I've learned through experience, is not a static thing. It's a living thing; it's a breathing thing. It's a thing that we take care of. We nurture it. It's not something that is gifted to us. It's a right that has been actively claimed and protected.

I've had the long and winding journey to this Chamber, and I believe that that actually has prepared me a little bit more than some of the other members in this Chamber, because of the hurdles that I've had to go through.

[Page 462]

I'll say again, I'm from Sudan. Sudan is a country where, right now, as we speak, people are dying for democracy. People are being killed to have the chance to elect a government that is put there by the people, for the people.

Millions of people in Sudan are right now facing this. People - my blood - right now are facing this. The fact that we are here talking about time allocation, and this is what they do in other places - let's talk about the things that really matter.

I fear that with this resolution and with this amendment in particular, by restricting the time, we're really eroding the foundation of why we are here. The whole point of us being here is to talk things through with each other. We're here as colleagues. Why is time allotted for debate such an enemy? It's a tool - not just for opposition; it's for all of us. It's a tool that could maybe improve some of the things that the government wants to bring forward by listening to other opinions.

Once again, I have a point of view that has not been seen in this Chamber quite often. I would love the opportunity to be able to debate things but knowing that that's going away is a terrifying notion. Sure, it's not going away, but there's going to be control over it that's not controlled by any one of us. That basically means it's going away.

It's been argued that limiting time is going to make it more efficient, streamline the legislative process, and address more pressing issues more quickly, but why is quickly better? The importance of ensuring all our voices are heard - particularly the voices of the minority groups that some of the members here represent on all sides - it needs to be given adequate time to be heard here. The experience that I have as a woman of colour and an immigrant, the experience that - I won't call out other members - other members have other identities that they identify with, and these identities require extra time in debate to ensure that the issues that are being debated do not harmfully impact them.

I hope it's okay that I say this - but the way that, for example, a law would impact you, Speaker, is different from how it might impact me. Is that okay?

THE SPEAKER « » : Please retract. I think we all know what you mean. (Interruption)

I said "you." I retract that, but you're not allowed to say "you."

LINA HAMID « » : I retract "you." Sorry, I retract that.

THE SPEAKER « » : It's all right. It's going well.

The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

LINA HAMID « » : I appreciate you, Speaker.

[Page 463]

By limiting debate time, this risks disproportionately impacting the very communities that have been already disproportionately impacted for centuries. A democracy that doesn't listen to all the voices equitably - not equally - equitably. Those are two very different concepts. A democracy that doesn't listen to the voices equitably - can we really call that a democracy?

We're not trying to fearmonger, as the honourable member tried to imply. We're not trying to fearmonger, but the reality is that this is what's at stake: What's at stake is our ability to be able to properly represent our constituents and to be able to properly represent people who have already been marginalized for centuries.

Let's ensure that we give this House and its history the respect it deserves by ensuring that we do things effectively, not efficiently. Let us choose instead a path of thoughtful deliberation, informed decision-making, and accountable governance. Let's honour the legacy of this House by upholding the principles that have guided it for centuries. Let us remember that democracy is not a spectator sport. It requires active participation, vigorous debate, and a commitment to ensuring that every voice is heard.

I go back to the fact that, as a new member, I was looking forward to being able to come in here and talk about the things that matter. At 9:15 we're talking about time allotted to debates.

Let's really give this House the respect that it deserves and remember that this democracy is something that we have to work hard at and ensure that it's given the attention and the care that it deserves. I will go back to the fact that things don't need to be static. The fact that I'm here in this Chamber is proof that things are not static. Things change - we can change. That's okay. No problem. But let's talk about it together. Let's talk about how we can make this House more effective together.

If I may actually just pull something out of my bag.

[9:15 p.m.]

THE SPEAKER « » : You have 43 minutes and 32 seconds left.

LINA HAMID « » : Amazing. Wow. You shouldn't have told me. I shouldn't have known that.

I'd like to refer to some other comments that were made in the House about how we need to change things because the face of Nova Scotia is changing. There's data to prove that. There are also groups out there working hard to figure out how we can make things better for Nova Scotians. And rather than debating how we can bring those ideas to the House, we're here talking about time allotted to debate. It really is a sad thing.

So what is the value of passing legislation quickly, if the legislation is ill-conceived, poorly drafted, and has potential to harm the people we're elected to serve? True efficiency is not about rushing through legislation. It's about making well-informed decisions based on members to engage in meaningful dialogue, to challenge assumptions, to explore alternative approaches and to ensure that every voice is taken into consideration.

[Page 464]

This Chamber, more than any other in our nation, embodies the very essence of representative democracy. It's here within these walls, that the voices of Nova Scotians for generations have found their expression. It is here that the fundamental principles of open debate, thorough scrutiny and accountable governance - principles that I, as an immigrant to this province, hold particularly dear - have been forged, and I would even say defended through the debate that we are specifically trying to limit.

I mentioned previously that I'm from Sudan. I was born and raised in Qatar. Qatar is a nation that presents a different but equally concerning set of challenges. While obviously more economically open and sound for individuals living there, it lacked very fundamental freedoms that I now cherish here in Canada as a Canadian, and one that I vow to defend for Nova Scotians.

The ability to express dissenting opinions, to challenge the status quo, was very severely limited by the fact that it wasn't even a democracy: It was a monarchy. And I wasn't from that country, therefore I couldn't really participate in any of it. Coming to Nova Scotia, realizing, wow, I have friends and I can talk about them, I can debate them, and I can advocate for myself and for others. I can't wait to do that. I did that through the advocacy work that I've done before.

Once upon a time, I was outside this very House protesting, and that's something that I truly cherish. Knowing that's being taken away, limited by people who are not us, is a terrifying thought. The fact that we can make jokes about it is also even more terrifying.

Let's talk about what changes we want to make. We want to be more effective - that's fine. We want to change things - that's cool. Let's change. But why now, actually? That's another question. Why now? This government has enough seats. We've heard that several times - to be able to pass things without changing the way things are done. It doesn't make sense. Why now? There's so much at stake at this point for Nova Scotians. People are barely being able to keep a roof over their heads. They can barely keep food in their fridges. People are having to choose between medication or rent or groceries. The luxury of sitting here and debating allotted time is kind of crazy.

Nova Scotians have told us, time and time again, what it is they care about, what it is that is the most important to them. We agreed with - maybe not the way - the means by which we get to the goal that we all have. At the end of the day, we're all here for the exact same thing: to better the lives of Nova Scotians. That's why they put us in these seats.

At the end of the day, that's what we're all here to do. It doesn't make sense to me why this is an issue.

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THE SPEAKER « » : Just a quick little story. I think we were all nervous the first time we spoke for an hour, and we're still nervous. Every time I press the microphone on, I'm nervous. It's normal.

The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

LINA HAMID « » : I appreciate that. Thank you.

Going back to being able to effectively represent our constituents and the concerns that they have, there is really no benefit to anybody to change things right now.

Thank you, Speaker.

THE SPEAKER « » : I'm sorry to the member for Sackville-Uniacke, but another member stood up before you.

The honourable member for Lunenburg.

HON. SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK « » : I will just take a few moments, if I may. We have heard over the last couple of evenings - we've had eloquent introductions invoking Shakespeare and children's literature, references to endurance speeches on blueberries, and being a Lunenburger, I'm going to throw in dories.

I'm very disappointed that our Minister of Public Works isn't here because he and I in the past have had a few back-and-forths on blueberries and wooden boats.

I won't belabour it, but I raise this because in my work prior to politics, I ran a wooden boat shop - a wooden boat shop that has a history that dates back to 1917. I was very proud of working for a business that, since I left, has passed the century mark and continues to make fine wooden boats in the Nova Scotian tradition.

But also, during my years there, in the interest of finding greater efficiencies, and in so doing, making the business - hoping to make the business - more sustainable, successful, and profitable . . .

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. The rules have been rough tonight, but I just clued in that you recognized that a member wasn't here this evening. I ask for you to retract that. We all make mistakes.

The honourable member for Lunenburg.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK « » : Thank you, Speaker. I thought he might be behind me.

In an effort to ensure the future of this fine institution, the Lunenburg Dory Shop - which has built hundreds and thousands of dories for first the North Atlantic fishery and continues today more for recreational purposes - I was able to get some funding to bring in an efficiency expert. The first thing the efficiency expert did was talk about spaghetti diagrams.

[Page 466]

The Lunenburg Dory Shop occupies two buildings on the Lunenburg waterfront. In the heyday of the salt bank schooner fishery, it had 20-some people building dories straight time. One building was solely to make the bottoms of the dories, and the other building was where the sides of the dories would be built up and they would be completed.

In the time I worked for the dory shop, we had usually one builder. Occasionally, if we got a bunch of orders, we would bring in a second hand. Still, Speaker, the dory builder went over to a separate building where he would cut and put together the bottoms. Then he would walk across the road to another building entirely where there was a saw he could use, and then he would come back to a third building.

If you started to draw the efficiency diagram - which even in a modern plant can show you where you're losing time - very quickly and almost comically we saw where, as proud as we were of our boats, we were stuck in another time period.

It went further than that. The fastenings that we were building our boats with were inferior in a time when there were better materials, and without substantially changing certainly the look and the feel of the boat and making it more long-lasting. Change for the sake of improvement is a very fundamental thing. It's something that, as the Government of Nova Scotia, we encourage our businesses and our organizations writ large to do, and we must apply those same principles to ourselves.

[9:30 p.m.]

This evening, I want to speak specifically to one area. My honourable colleagues have spoken about time allocation, I think, quite extensively. I would like to concentrate on just one item that is often referred to in this House as a tool, and that is the bells. The bells are rung to call members to a recorded vote. Years ago, at the time when such traditions were established, indeed the Whips may have needed to search for up to 60 minutes, to perhaps head out to restaurants, pubs, and offices to find their members and get them back to Province House. That may have been true as late as 25 or 30 years ago. When you get my age, 30 years ago frankly doesn't sound that long ago.

Technology has changed all that. Now, by simply pressing send on a group text, the Whip can notify members - I believe this happens across all of our three parties - that they are needed. It is a process that takes seconds. The time limits proposed in Resolution No. 5 are appropriate for a modern legislature.

In the United Kingdom, Division bells were once installed in more than 20 nongovernmental locations in Westminster. Locations included the Red Lion pub opposite Downing Street, the Westminster Arms, and the Institution of Civil Engineers, all within easy walking distance of the House of Commons. The noise would alert MPs it was time to put down their knives, forks, and pints and head to the House of Commons to vote. Repairing the bells, though, was expensive, so in recent years, when the bells stopped ringing in the restaurants and pubs, the owners just left them as they were, an ornament on the walls.

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The rise of smart phones has made the tradition of the Division bells unnecessary. I would also note that when Division bells ring at the Palace of Westminster, members of the House of Lords have eight minutes to get to their chosen Division lobby to vote. In Australia, the bells ring for just four minutes.

If those examples are too far afield for our friends in the Opposition, we can look closer to home. In the House of Commons, they ring for 15 to 30 minutes; in British Columbia, 5 minutes; Alberta, 15 minutes; Saskatchewan, 10 minutes for non-debatable motions, 30 minutes for debatable motions; Manitoba, 60 minutes; Ontario, 5 to 30 minutes; Quebec, 5 minutes - they're quick in La Belle Province - New Brunswick, 10 minutes; P.E.I., 5 minutes - things are close together in P.E.I., there's only so far you can go, but they need 5 minutes - Newfoundland and Labrador, 10 minutes.

The original purpose for ringing the bells is to summon members. I think all members can agree that over the years, the primary purpose for ringing the bells has evolved, or perhaps devolved. Now, parties of all stripes use bell-ringing for other purposes. In many ways, it is as an irritant, and it's effective. No party in this House is innocent, as has been noted, but surely that is not a reason to continue something. In the end, ringing the bells does not bolster democracy; it only heightens political theatre.

I like a zinger as much as anybody else, but it does nothing for Nova Scotians. Maybe strong party supporters, those 20 or so people watching Legislative TV into the evenings who may slap their knees or hoot at the annoyed faces of the other parties, but really it serves no real purpose outside of annoyance and a possible case of tinnitus for many of our members.

In my view, those who want 60 minutes of bells want them for reasons other than strengthening democracy, and so I fully support the clauses of Resolution No. 5 to decrease the time of the bells from one hour to10 minutes.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. Order. It's just a nice long conversation about this and although the resolution has the bells in it, the amendment does not. The amendments are about the time allocation and so I ask that you bring it back to the amendment, please and thank you.

The honourable member for Lunenburg.

SUSAN CORKUM-GREEK « » : Thank you, Speaker, and I will close. Just to reiterate my firm belief and our party's belief that these changes in the resolution are for the betterment and greater efficiency and effectiveness of this Legislature.

[Page 468]

THE SPEAKER « » : The honourable member for Halifax Citadel-Sable Island.

LISA LACHANCE « » : I want to do a few things with my time tonight and luckily the government members have provided lots of things for me to respond with, you know, facts and evidence and so I will add that in. I am still going to start at the beginning, and believe it or not, the beginning is I was thinking about how the parliamentary traditions developed and how we came to have legislators sitting in legislatures under the Westminster model talking and debating bills.

I went right back, my friends, to the divine right of kings which, as we will remember, was the organizing principle under the Roman Catholic Church where the actual belief was that God himself spoke through the kings. There definitely wasn't democracy. People couldn't contest that and, of course, there were lots of human rights abuses and that sort of thing under that.

This developed then into absolutism, which really looked at centralized power. In a monarch or in a dictator, there wasn't necessarily this - like the whole God thing got a little bit fuzzy, but basically these systems were not subject to regularized challenge or checked by any other agency, whether it was judicial, legislative, religious, economic, or electoral.

As it has been noted tonight, actually we stand on the shoulders of giants. In 1758, the first meeting of the Nova Scotia Legislature was held. At that time, of course, it was not representative of Nova Scotians. It was 22 men - land-owning men - so actually in fact people who came from Britain, Germany, and New England, but they had interests in Nova Scotia. As I said, the majority of citizens at that point were denied the vote but it was the first elected assembly of its kind in Canada.

It has been noted between parliamentary democracy, freedom of the press, and responsible government, we have set the standard for a long time about how legislatures have developed in Canada and around the world and so it really influenced the development of responsible government. What is a responsible government?

A responsible government is held accountable by the people and not by a monarch or their representatives. It is representatives. It's not one person in charge, and basically you have an executive or a cabinet who depends on the votes of a majority in the legislature or parliament. That's how this is supposed to work. The key principle in responsible government is that the government needs to maintain the confidence of the entire parliament or legislature to create laws and enact taxation.

Still, obviously through the development of democracy in Canada, we have a long way to go. There are lots of challenges. Even in the early years, obviously, lots of people did not have access to the vote. Women didn't have access to the vote, Indigenous people didn't have access to the vote and so on and so forth.

It was still small groups of special interests - usually well-connected, wealthy, special interests that the government served. It was after World War II that we really saw the full sort of development of the Westminster model because after World War II, governments in Canada, the U.K., Australia, started to take on more responsibilities for programs and services. With that, there was a development of a departmental structure, there was a real separation between the legislative branch - that's where we all sit, actually - and the executive branch, and that's where some of the government sit. Also, the role of the Official Opposition and other Opposition parties was an important part of that.

[Page 469]

I cannot stop myself from jumping around. I just really wanted to respond to some of the things where I think - fundamentally, I think it's a difference in world view. I heard the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley talk about pushing the mandate through and a strong mandate.

It has been noted, of course, that that was the lowest voter turnout ever in the province. I actually don't think any of us should be particularly proud of how that went. At the same time in our seats, in fact, we got the most votes, but even in our seats it's true, people voted for the different parties. The same thing is true in the seats of the government. So in the seats of the government - and no one actually got 100 per cent of the votes.

I think Nova Scotians deserve more respect than this idea that we're going to somehow go from a situation where we have a respectful Westminster model, where we have a legislative branch, an executive branch, we have an Official Opposition, to something that's much different.

I think our role together is to talk about: What are the plans? How can we respond to what Nova Scotians need? I approach that in a very humble way. I do not presume to understand what people in Sambro need. I do not presume to know what people in Digby need. I come here with a humble attitude that I want to be curious about that. I want to learn about that, and I want to hear from other people.

[9:45 p.m.]

We've heard lots tonight about, Well, that takes too long, right? Don't worry about that because there are 43 members who got the most votes in their seats and - don't be curious about folks over on our side. Don't worry about it. Our folks will just be seemingly voiceless in this Legislature. I think that's a very sad precedent to set.

We could say that yes, we are going to sacrifice efficiency so that we hear from everybody. That is not what this government is doing.

I did access a list of the dates that this Legislature sat over the last 30 or so years. Just looking back at the previous NDP government, where usually on an annual basis the Legislature sat for about 67 days, 64 days. Under the Liberal government that continued. It started to decrease a little bit to maybe 45 days in a year.

The last sitting, if folks will recall with me, in September 2024 of the Houston government, we sat for 10 days. So I do not know how anyone could say that there is a need to make things more efficient. When I look across at so many other jurisdictions - so for instance, talking about time allotment in the U.K., we had lots of lessons shared by the U.K.

[Page 470]

The U.K. - actually those program allocations can be applied in the House of Commons, but they can't be applied in the House of Lords. But I will say that in the House of Commons, in the U.K. House of Commons in 2023-24, they sat 101 days. So, in fact there's lots of time to hear from all of you - from backbenchers, from the Official Opposition.

Australia was brought forward as another example. Since 1901, in fact, the Australian Parliament has sat 67 days over 20 weeks per year. That's the average. Some have been less; some have been more. But actually, the debate on bills is not subject to time limits. The only time that a time limit can be introduced is actually at the end of a parliamentary sitting. So, if the end of, say, 30-odd days of them sitting is approaching, then they can consider actually adding a time allocation.

Oh, and they have a set calendar. So this is the whole thing, right? Also, when you have a set calendar, it means lots. The member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley would know this, having served in the federal Parliament. You could know - we know. We work with our colleagues at the federal level all the time, and we know that they're sitting from September to kind of like the first week of December, and from the end of January to June.

You know what that means? It's that there is an expectation that government, say, will be introducing bills. And then stakeholders can get organized, right? We literally - the government gives no notice to stakeholders. Gives no notice to the Opposition. We've had this time and time again. It is, at this point - I guess, honestly, I'm not even surprised by it anymore.

I think of two bills in particular that have been tabled without any consultation with existing stakeholders who are organized to talk to government, who are available to talk to government. One would be Bill No. 12 on advanced education. No university president that I have spoken to had any idea that this was coming forward. And even without this time allocation, honestly, that bill is going to pass.

This is going to be rammed through. Stakeholders are not going to have the opportunity to look at the legislation, to consider the legislation, to provide input. The idea that somehow we're reverting to a system where, because the government won 43 seats, that eliminates the role for Opposition, or a role for stakeholders, or special interests, or folks to come forward and talk about the bills, is actually quite ludicrous. I can't even think of a better word for it.

Again, the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley talked about the government having a plan. I actually think that's quite funny, because this government has not produced a lot of the plans that it's even committed to - the student housing plan. There hasn't been an economic development plan. I would argue that because legislation is being rushed, the full implications are not being considered.

[Page 471]

We're here to ask questions. We're here to liaise with stakeholders. We're here to bring things forward. It's not that we think we're smarter. It's not that - as I said, I approach this with a humility and a curiosity. It is not that I assume that I know lots of things are better. I want to learn about it from stakeholders.

My one example I might bring forward is the interprovincial trade Act that was tabled today, which I think is really important. We all know it's really important. I think the tariffs are coming. But when I ask - I don't think you'll have answers about how that is going to affect some of the flagship programs and services of this government. The proposed bill removes any consideration of the difference between goods and services from other provinces - how is that going to affect our institutional procurement policy and goals that we have? We want to increase the amount of Nova Scotia foods in hospitals and in schools. How is that going to affect Nova Scotia Loyal? I don't know the answers to these questions. If we're putting through a bill on interprovincial trade by next week, I feel like we're not going to have time to hear those answers.

This is what I mean. We have excessively short legislative sittings. We don't have a legislative calendar. We meet at the will of the Premier, and we have no excuse to limit debate.

I also want to talk a bit about what I have been learning about time allocation. I'll table this article by Yves Pelletier that was in Canadian Parliamentary Review. He had originally looked at the use of Standing Order 78, which is the time allocation in the House of Commons, and in an article titled "Silencing Parliamentary Democracy or Effective Time Management? Time Allocation in the House of Commons," and recently updated it to 2021. I'll provide a few summary points that I think are interesting.

First, the member for Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley was correct - it began in 1969. In fact, there are three procedures provided for in the House of Commons. The third is what I think we're most concerned about emulating here, and that's where, on an ad hoc deterministic level, the Government House Leader can stand up and set time limits.

At the time that this was developed, in fact, it was assured that nobody would use it. There had been a lengthy debate in 1956, and no one wanted to see that again, but it would not be used. In fact, what Yves Pelletier finds is that it's been used 331 times, it's been a tool of majority governments - but not when they're large majorities, so I would just suggest perhaps something to learn for this government - and that their use has been increasing in the past decade. I am all over my notes here.

He considers the question - he looks at whether time allocation increases efficiency, and he concludes, in fact, that it does not have an effect. In his conclusion, he says, "Time allocation will continue to be a most effective way to limit debate, and thus silence both the government's own backbenchers as well as the opposition." I'll table that article.

[Page 472]

We would love to consider a whole range of changes to make this Legislature work better. In fact, things like having a set calendar would increase our efficiency enormously. Like I said, the government would know when you were trying to create draft bills. Stakeholders would know when to expect to be considering issues instead of this surprise when it seems to be advantageous for the government. It would settle things. Our proposal would be that we do sit more days. We sit the least number of days of any jurisdiction. Why we're seeking to further limit the time and debate - as we've all said - I don't think it can be justified.

I did look at both closure provisions in the House of Commons and time allocation provisions in the House of Commons in other provincial legislatures, and in fact, what's proposed here - it is not correct to say that there are lots of jurisdictions in Canada that have these rules. What's being proposed is mostly like a combination - it's true - of British Columbia and the House of Commons. But like I said with the article, people have looked at this and how it has worked. It doesn't actually seem to be particularly advantageous to government.

I'm wondering: What's the message folks want to send to Nova Scotians? There have been some pretty divisive, vitriolic messages sent to date in this session. The continued reference to "special interests" - please justify those. The "professional protestor class." I think I know who might have come up with those words. I think I've seen him on documents from other organizations in Nova Scotia. What is that doing for your conversation, for all of our conversations with constituents? I don't think it's respectful. I don't think that the way that it's being positioned that this government - I understand.

I'm actually going to back up. When I was first elected in 2021 - I have worked in government. I've worked in provincial government, the federal government, done lots of interdepartmental work. I will tell you that I walked in here in September 2021, and I fully understood that one team had won, and other teams hadn't won, and that one team had more seats and were going to be proposing bills and that sort of thing. I literally thought - honestly, I was so naive - I really believed that we would be working together for Nova Scotians because I know all of us fought for this job to make things better for Nova Scotians.

I actually thought it would be like, Hey, member for Halifax Atlantic. It's true, you don't know much about things - well, maybe; you used to live in Halifax Citadel - you don't know what's happening in Halifax Citadel-Sable Island these days. I don't know what's happening in Halifax Atlantic these days. Let's talk about how this bill works for both groups or in terms of critic areas and areas of specialization that we have when we enter as members.

If I look around our caucus, we have enormous experience in law, in municipal affairs, in community organizing, in supporting youth, in research, and mental health. We have all this expertise for lots of the things that people want to work on. Why would we not be engaged? Honestly, I was so naive. I just have to, you know? It's probably better I didn't understand what this was going to be like exactly. (Laughs)

I will also say that motions of closure and motions of time allocation have other words. They're also referred to as guillotines. Can everybody remember what a guillotine is? What's an image that one might have if one looks at a guillotine. Is it fast? It's fast. I guess, your head is going in there, but it's fast, right? The old measures of closure - which is actually not what we're debating here. That's why people have tried to look at different ideas around time allocation - were to essentially overcome what was highly criticized.

Speaking of instruments of torture, I know that at one point as we named off all the provinces that have these abilities - in fact, in Quebec, there is a special provision that is called the "closed bâillon." The bâillon is an instrument of torture designed to silence someone. It has been used a lot in the provincial legislature in Quebec, and it is highly criticized for its effect. For many years, I assured colleagues I'd met from Quebec who are also legislators that we did not have a "closed bâillon," that we had short sittings - we had this, we had that. Whereas they sit all year, they sit September to June - they have lots of time to talk about things. We certainly had not adopted a tool of torture to end our debates.

I guess I just really want to make it clear that I think there is some really important information that's been shared amongst all of us.

THE SPEAKER « » : Order. We have reached the time of adjournment. The House stands adjourned until Wednesday, February 26^th from 1:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.

[The House rose at 10:00 p.m.]

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