HALIFAX, THURSDAY, MARCH 6, 2025

 

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY

 

3:43 P.M.

 

CHAIR

John White

 

 

THE CHAIR: Order, please. Committee of the Whole House on Supply will come to order. It is now 3:43 p.m., and the committee must rise to report to the House before the hour of adjournment, which today is 10:00 p.m.

 

THE CHAIR: The honourable Minister of Growth and Development.

 

HON. COLTON LEBLANC: Chair, before I close debate on my department's estimates, I do want to provide a few closing remarks.

 

First, I do want to thank my dedicated staff for their support over the last few days and the entire time I have been Minister of Growth and Development. I really appreciate their time and their effort, especially the preparation that goes into Estimates. It's a big lift for the department, but they certainly have helped me in my capacity as minister, and of course, I hope it has helped members of this Chamber understand the important work of the Department of Growth and Development.

 

Chair, there's no question that it has been a difficult week for Nova Scotians, with the implementation of tariffs by the United States. I want Nova Scotians to know that we are prepared to support our businesses and our people. We will do everything we can with our federal and with our provincial colleagues to counter these actions. We are ready, and we have a plan.

 

[3:45 p.m.]

 

We will continue to help businesses manage in the short term and help them pivot and explore new markets. We will continue to work with the federal government as it designs and implements counter-tariffs, and we will announce details on business supports following important discussions with our federal and provincial partners, based on feedback of our businesses, as well, as we have a clearer picture of the economic impact of these tariffs on Nova Scotia.

 

As part of Budget 2025-26, we have established a $200 million contingency to reflect the impact of unanticipated changes in economic growth and in revenues or expenses resulting from these tariffs. We're working on a trade action plan, as I have mentioned, to help businesses engage in global trade, increase their global competitiveness, and drive investment growth. We have issued a call to action to develop our valuable natural resources.

 

We introduced legislation designed to break down barriers to interprovincial trade, something that I encourage all provinces to get behind. I called upon my housing colleagues across the country when we were on a federal-provincial-territorial call last week.

 

Just this morning, Chair, I was at the Loblaws in Bayers Lake, announcing a new partnership with them and Walmart Canada through our Nova Scotia Loyal program. With our enhanced budget and our efforts, five times more businesses have signed on to the movement to be Nova Scotia Loyal, and that number is growing daily.

 

Before these actions were even announced, we were hard at work for years helping our businesses start up, scale up, and diversify. In this budget alone, there is over $130 million in funding programs that will help our businesses in a multitude of ways to weather these uncertain times. For example, this year we have earmarked $2.5 million through our Export Development Program, which helps companies pursue new markets beyond Nova Scotia. I have shared a couple of those success stories. We have $12 million earmarked for the Innovation Rebate Program, which provides financial incentives for projects that assists Nova Scotian companies to scale, improve productivity, and increase their global competitiveness. We also have an anticipated $95 million through the Nova Scotia First Fund, which makes venture capital investments directly to Nova Scotia start-ups, filling a market gap and enabling start-ups to access the capital they need to grow and leverage additional investments.

 

These are just a few solid examples of how my department and Invest Nova Scotia and our partners are supporting our valued businesses. We have been there for business in the past, and we will absolutely be here for businesses now and in the future. I know I shared this in Question Period, but I want to remind all businesses and encourage all businesses that have questions to call Invest Nova Scotia. They will be happy to walk through the significant program funding options available to them. That number is 1-800-260-6682. Also, I want to highlight that we have our tariff hotline and survey available for Nova Scotians.

 

I do want to respond briefly to the member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier talking about our budget and insinuating that we're not doing enough and insinuating that tax cuts are a drop in the bucket. I would counter that argument hand over fist: $500 million to support Nova Scotians is not a drop in the bucket. An HST cut of 1 per cent is not a drop in the bucket. I question the member's motive when her party actually increased HST by 2 per cent when they were in government. We are a government of action. We are leading the Atlantic provinces - we're leading Canada - in making life more affordable for our residents.

 

We know there's more to do. We've made announcements and commitments in last year's budget. We're continuing that progress. We know that businesses need more support. We're making a historic tax cut in the small business tax credit. All of these are cumulative. All of these have a positive impact. To insinuate that a tax cut of 1 per cent on the HST is a drop in the bucket is wrong. We're investing in energy efficiency programs to support Nova Scotians, reduce their energy use, to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. We're investing in the Nova Scotia School Lunch Program.

 

We know that there's a lot of capital deficit left on the table by previous governments. We are announcing, included in this year's budget, the largest capital plan - $2.3 billion. Last year's was the largest. The year before that was the largest.

 

To say that we're not doing anything is false. I know we can say pretty much anything as long as it's parliamentary. Just because you repeat something on the floor of the Legislature time and time again doesn't make it true, doesn't mean it's going to come true. I encourage all members of all stripes to stick to facts.

 

I really hope that they're going to support a budget that is investing in Nova Scotians, investing in Nova Scotians who need more housing. This budget is increasing rent supplements, investing in rent supplements, investing in public housing, investing in affordable housing. You can't have it both ways.

 

I respect the role of Opposition. I respect to keep government to account. But to oppose to simply oppose and say that we need more public housing and say, “You're not doing public housing” - that's not true. We're doing public housing. Or, “There are too many rent supplements.” There are rent supplements and there are more rent supplements because of government investment, because we recognize there was an affordability issue that was left on the table.

 

I encourage the members opposite to have a ponder of that and reflect on government's investments and what they actually mean for their respective constituencies. We government members want to move this province forward, tap into untapped opportunities, and ensure that today's generation and tomorrow's generation have a brighter future.

 

Chair, before I conclude, I do want to clear up a few things. I want to be crystal clear that our housing plan has something for everyone. Whether you're one of the 16,000 Nova Scotians who has had housing affordability improved for them over the last 18 months or a community housing organization that has, for the first time, been able to build real equity and offer Nova Scotian families a safe and affordable place to call home, there is something for you. Whether you are one of the thousands of seniors who were helped through the Housing Repair Program and Accessible Housing Program or living in one of our public housing units, many of which are being upgraded for enhanced comfort, energy efficiency, accessibility, there is something for you. Whether you are one of the first 663 first-time home buyers who were supported through the Down Payment Assistance Program or one of the 700 families who will benefit from our new public housing units, there is something for you. Whether you are an Indigenous youth or elder who will live in one of the new units constructed in Dartmouth by the Mi'kmaw Native Friendship Centre or an African Nova Scotian who will benefit from the $8.5 million investment in the Preston Area Housing Fund to preserve, repair, and operate 48 units, there's something for you.

 

I have spoken at length about our housing plan. I believe in it. I believe in its results. I believe in the data that's being shown there. I believe in the data of the CMHC, contrary to the insinuation of the NDP. This is real data. The proof is there. We know that there's more work to be done, but I can assure you that this government here is committed to doing just that. With that, I'll close debate.

 

THE CHAIR: Shall Resolution E12 stand?

 

The resolution stands.

 

The committee will recess for a couple of minutes, till we set up for the next department.

 

[3:54 p.m. The committee recessed.]

 

[3:58 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

 

THE CHAIR: Order, please. The Committee of the Whole House on Supply will come to order.

 

The honourable Deputy Government House Leader.

 

MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: Chair, would you please call the Estimates for the Minister of Opportunities and Social Development, Resolution E18.

 

Resolution E18 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $1,676,809,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Opportunities and Social Development, pursuant to the Estimate.

 

THE CHAIR: I would now invite the minister to introduce the staff to the committee and make opening remarks.

 

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I'm honoured to be here to present the 2025-26 budget for the Department of Opportunities and Social Development. Here with me are Craig Beaton, deputy minister of Opportunities and Social Development; and Toyin Akindoju, our executive director of finance.

 

As many of you know, my background is in education. I spent many years in the classroom teaching Grade 4 all the way through to Grade 12, and even post-secondary undergraduate and graduate courses. I spent many more years as principal, both at elementary and secondary schools. I spent my entire career working with children, parents, and families from all walks of life.

 

I have seen up close the challenges that families are facing and the impact those challenges have. I have also seen first-hand the strength and resilience of Nova Scotians and how the right support at the right time builds a foundation that helps people and families persevere, grow and thrive.

 

[4:00 p.m.]

 

That same commitment to understanding, supporting and empowering people is what guides me in my work with this department. All Nova Scotians want to provide for themselves and their families, contribute to their communities, and lead fulfilling lives. Sometimes, the challenges of doing this can be quite overwhelming. These challenges can be economic. Lack of access to food, shelter, and transportation; rising inflation; lack of affordable housing; and increasing food prices can compound these challenges for people who are struggling.

 

Other times it can be a need for services or family supports, for example, to help parents raise their children and keep them safe and healthy or a need for services and support after fleeing domestic violence. Life challenges impact people in different ways. Our role is to provide effective supports and assistance so all Nova Scotians can live happy and fulfilling lives. The services we provide help improve the overall health and well-being of people in our communities throughout Nova Scotia and help build a better future for everyone.

 

It is important to emphasize that collaboration and partnership are essential to the work we do. Already in my time as minister, I have had the opportunity to meet incredibly compassionate and dedicated people within the department and among our partners, volunteers, and our valued service providers. Nova Scotians are known for their kindness, compassion, and generosity. Nowhere are those characteristics more evident than within the people and organizations that work with our province's most vulnerable citizens. I want to thank them for undertaking this difficult and often emotional work. Their commitment and tenacity are unwavering.

 

Service providers cannot do this alone. That's where the Department of Opportunities and Social Development comes in. Our almost $1.7 billion budget supports the Nova Scotians who need it the most. Our budget supports our province's children and ensures they and their families are better positioned to achieve success. It gives Nova Scotians experiencing homelessness better access to shelters, supportive housing, and wraparound supports. It allows us to continue our journey toward generational transformation of the disability support system in our province.

 

Budget 2025-26 includes a $19.4 million increase for a total of $121.4 million to support the continued transformation of Nova Scotia's disability support system as part of the Nova Scotia Human Rights Remedy. This is a significant investment and clearly demonstrates the government's commitment to implementing the actions required by the Human Rights Remedy. For decades people living with disabilities in our province have not been supported to make their own decisions about where they want to live, who they want to live with, and the supports they need to receive. They have long been denied the choice that exists for all Nova Scotians.

 

In Nova Scotia, we strive to be a province that embraces diversity. We want to create communities where everyone has the opportunity to reach their full potential. We want everyone to have a choice and equal opportunity to participate and to find success. To do this, we are transforming the Disability Support Program. This transformation will follow the direction of the Human Rights Remedy.

 

The work is guided by an expert report titled the Human Rights Review and Remedy for the Findings of Systemic Discrimination Against Nova Scotians with Disabilities. This laid the foundation for a legally binding Remedy to address systemic discrimination. The report, prepared by leading international experts, sets the groundwork and outlines a path forward as we transform the disability support system in the province. It includes key directions with supporting action plans and timelines, and in it we will empower people living with disabilities to make their own decisions about the supports they need for personal and professional fulfilment and the funding that's needed to support it. We will close large institutions, create new and better community-based supports and services, build regional hubs, and provide province-wide support programs, including clinical and mental health supports, and we'll strengthen the capacity of the disability support system as a whole.

 

The Remedy has a five-year implementation timeline, and the work is well under way, not just within the Department of Opportunities and Social Development but across government. We have been holding conversations with people across the province, including persons with disabilities, their families, service providers, and other valued partners.

 

We are preparing to host our second Rebuilding HOPE conference later this month. This conference brings together persons with disabilities, their families and support networks, service providers, and others to share experiences and ideas to help shape our path going forward. It is a wonderful, meaningful day. We had over 1,200 participants in person and online in the last conference, and it represents a new beginning for the way government supports persons with disabilities through the Nova Scotia Human Rights Remedy.

 

We are in Year 2 of the Remedy's five-year timetable. We have made significant progress in those two years, and I'd like to share some of that with you today. Since this work began, we have reduced the population living in institutionalized settings by almost 20 per cent and ended all new admissions effective January 1, 2025. We have reduced the wait-list for services by 287 persons, a decrease of 16 per cent. We have created facility closure agreements with all our operators and developed a comprehensive guide to support them as they wind up operations and close those facilities to DSP participants. We have created 120 new positions to support the transformation work under way now.

 

The continued delivery of individualized funding and disability support exists. That includes establishing four new regional hub teams in northern, central, eastern, and western Nova Scotia to support persons with disabilities to live in their communities and help transition people out of institutions.

 

We launched a brand new three-year $3 million Service Evolution Fund to support the service providers as they shift their business models to a human rights-based approach aligned with the Remedy. Our first round of funding has already been awarded - $362,258 to support eight projects - and we expect to send out our second round of funding over the next couple weeks.

 

We launched our Remedy workforce strategy, which recognizes the talent and expertise that exists in the disability support sector today but also lays out a plan to keep that and build on it. Last week we announced that we'll be covering tuition, textbooks, and student fees for up to 75 students in a brand-new one-year Disability Support Professional certificate program at the Nova Scotia Community College this Fall, and also provide funding to support an additional 24 students entering Island Career Academy's Community Residential Worker program and CBBC Career College's Community Support Worker Program.

 

There is much work still ahead as we transform this system from the ground up. We will advance together with the disability community, service providers, and communities. Budget 2025-26 supports this important work. This is an incredibly exciting journey, and I'm eager to see what the future brings.

 

Safe and healthy children, youth, and families are key to building a stronger Nova Scotia. It is the role of my department to ensure children and youth are protected and families are supported. Our department supports families and children when there's a crisis, and that will not change, but our goal is to move to a system that focuses more on prevention and early intervention and away from a crisis-driven system that requires costlier and often less effective interventions.

 

This year's budget expands on programs that have demonstrated success and invests in new programs to further enhance our work. We continue to develop new prevention and early intervention programming for children, youth, and families and to expand and enhance existing supports available across the province. There are three main program areas within our child and family well-being division.

 

One is prevention and early intervention to ensure the healthy development and well-being of children and youth, families, and communities. This includes services and support offered throughout the province through family resource centres, Strengthening Fathers, Youth Outreach program, and Families Plus, to name a few. Child protection and safety, family preservation, and children-in-care services respond to the safety needs of children and their families and support children in care and those who care for and are connected with them.

 

It is March, and it's important to note that March is National Social Work Month. Social workers are advocates, advisers, and counsellors. They are a strong voice for those whose voices often go unheard. Social work is not easy. It's one of the most difficult and emotional jobs in government. We have more than 400 social workers in this department. They show up every day to support their clients and communities, even when it's hard, as this work often is.

 

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank our province's social workers for their dedication and passion and for showing up, often in the most challenging of circumstances, and making a difference. Nova Scotians are better, safer, and stronger because of you.

 

I'd now like to share information on some of this year's investments and continued support of programs that help support the well-being of children and families.

 

I'm going to start with the Nova Scotia Child Benefit. Like all Nova Scotians, our government is concerned about the ongoing impact inflation is having on the cost of living in our province. The inflationary pressures we're seeing across the country and around the world have been making life harder, and I know families are struggling. We will continue to provide financial support to low-income families receiving the Nova Scotia Child Benefit. This benefit provides a tax-free payment to eligible families to help with the cost of raising children under 18 years of age.

 

Over the past three years, government has increased this important and long-standing program twice, with a focus on better supporting families with incomes below $34,000: specifically, a $250 increase for the first child and each subsequent child for families earning $26,000 or less and a $250 increase for the first child and a $125 for each subsequent child for Nova Scotians earning between $26,000 and $34,000. This investment in Budget 2025-26 allows us to continue to provide this important financial support to low-income families at a vital time in their children's lives.

 

The financial stabilization payment: I'm pleased to detail another positive change my department has implemented to better support child and family well-being. Many families in the province rely on the Canada child benefit as part of their household income to manage the expenses of raising a child. Eligibility for the Canada child benefit is determined by the Canada Revenue Agency through federal legislation.

 

When a child must be brought into the temporary care of the minister, all provinces in Canada are required to make application to the Canada Revenue Agency to receive the Children's Special Allowances. This allowance is a federal payment to help provinces and agencies offset the cost of caring for a child in care. Unfortunately, when we make this application, it results in the Canada child benefit payments to the family being discontinued.

 

When the decision is made to bring a child into the temporary care of the minister, our focus is on supporting not only that child and their safety but also their family. The loss of the Canada child benefit payment can have a financial impact on families at a difficult time in their lives. We want to help ensure parents or guardians have the financial resources to maintain a safe and healthy home for their children to return to as soon as possible. Our financial stabilization payments help us do just that. Through this program, we are able to provide $500 monthly per child to families with children in temporary care to help offset the unintended impact of the loss of the Canada child benefit while we work with the family to support reunification. The monthly payment jumps to $700 per child if the family had been receiving the child disability benefit. These payments are provided throughout the time we are working with the family, and they continue for 90 says after the family is reunified to give time for the Canada child benefit to begin again.

 

Since this program was started, it has supported over 445 families in communities across Nova Scotia. I'm proud to say that Nova Scotia is the first province in Canada to implement this type of initiative.

 

Alternative Family Care: There are times when it has been determined that a child cannot safely live with their parent or guardian. In these cases the next best option, when appropriate, is someone the child has had a pre-existing relationship with, such as a family member or a community member who cares for them. The Alternative Family Care program provides an option for a child to live with other members of their family or a circle of support while the child and family well-being team is working with the parents to address concerns and support reunification. This program was initially launched in December 2018. As of February 1, 2025, it is supporting 419 children to stay and live in their communities.

 

[4:15 p.m.]

 

One that's close to my heart is foster care. Every child deserves a safe and loving home, especially when they cannot be with their family or a familiar caregiver. In these moments, foster caregivers step in, offering not just shelter but stability, compassion, and hope. They are among the most dedicated volunteers in our province. I want to begin by expressing my deepest gratitude for their incredible commitment. Right now, approximately 700 caregivers have opened their hearts and their homes to children who need them. This includes both full-time foster families and respite caregivers.

 

In 2022, we began the implementation of a new service delivery approach to foster care in our province. It's called the Mockingbird Family. For anyone who isn't familiar, the Mockingbird Family approach is designed to support children in care, caregivers, and communities. What it does is identify one hub or lead home with up to 10 satellite homes connected to it. Satellite homes are foster homes that offer full-time care or respite support to children or youth in care.

 

The hub home is meant to be a familiar and comfortable place, not unlike a grandparents' home or special auntie's home. It's a place that is familiar and comfortable for children, youth, and caregivers. Attending regular gatherings at the hub home occurs monthly for formal gatherings and celebrations like birthdays, holidays, and any other reason to celebrate and support each other. Youth may go to the hub home to connect with peer support or to hang out with friends. Caregivers may go to the hub home to connect with other caregivers in the community or to connect with additional community-based supports.

 

The hub home offers respite, too, because we all need a break. Anyone who has raised children or made a career of it like I did knows how important a break can be. A hub home offers that, too, for children and youth and for the foster caregivers in the Mockingbird constellation.

 

What we're doing here is building an extended family model for foster caregivers to build a network of peers who understand the unique challenges that come with caring for children and youth who are not able to live with their parents or guardians. The young people get a community of caring adults and peers who know them, whom they can trust and rely on, and who are watching out for them and their interests.

 

There are 50 constellations in Nova Scotia today, with six to 10 satellite homes connecting about 400 families. In the two years since we started using this model, we're already seeing the impact. We're seeing children show a true sense of belonging within their constellation, surrounded by caring adults and peers who are committed to their well-being.

 

When a caregiver needs some respite or perhaps faces some sort of emergency, children stay with familiar and trusted families, people they already know, reducing stress and strengthening their sense of security. Caregivers, too, have shared how transformative this model has been. Many have told us they finally feel connected to the community of people who share their unique journey. One constellation even did a Summer camping vacation together. Many have gathered for a holiday meal together, showing that these relationships provide not only support but also moments of joy and celebration.

 

Foster care is a powerful act of love and commitment. We are always recruiting foster caregivers. If you or someone you know has ever considered fostering, I encourage you to take this step. By opening your heart and your home, you become part of a compassionate and supportive community that helps children feel safe, valued, and connected.

 

At some point, children leave care. We have programs to support them, as well. Each year, more than 70 young people transition from care to adulthood in this province when they turn 19. As you can appreciate, this is a critical point for a young adult just starting out and a challenging time, too. There are big things to navigate, like finding affordable housing and figuring out school or job choices.

 

I also think about how many times my own children have called home about the little stuff: how to do taxes, make a doctor's appointment, or get relationship advice. As a high school principal, we work closely with Grade 12 students as they are trying to make a plan for their next steps. In fact, we don't let them leave our school until we see that plan.

 

I think about how overwhelming it must be to navigate the world as a young adult who doesn't have that family, who doesn't have that support, and who doesn't have those caring adults or peers. In fact, as a teacher and a school principal, I have seen what happens up close. Young people transitioning out of care can face significant challenges right out of the gate - low income, housing instability, food insecurity - before they've even had a chance to make their first step.

 

That's the kind of thing government can address and should address. We did back in 2023 when we introduced the Path Program. In Nova Scotia, we will continue to address this. Path is an awesome program, and I say that taking absolutely no credit for the hard work of our department and of my predecessors in this chair.

 

This year's budget includes a $3.4 million investment into Path. This program gives young people leaving the care of the Province and starting out on their own two incredibly important things: financial assistance and community-based supports and services. The financial aid is given as a bi-weekly payment, which continues up to the young person's 26^th birthday, gradually decreasing as the person gains independence. You can appreciate the difference that financing can make in a young person's life. Also, they get help with things like how to get a job, how to manage a budget, and how to build self-confidence, how to have healthy relationships as an extension of things they have learned from grown-ups in their lives along the way: perhaps from their parents, teachers, and coaches or maybe social workers or foster caregivers. This is an additional bridge to adulthood.

 

Path Program participants can tap into exactly that kind of support through Youth Outreach plus, which also gives them access to more intensive clinical supports provided by Family Service Nova Scotia. This program is designed to help those with complex needs or those who could benefit from additional guidance. Programs like Path and Youth Outreach help give young people a stronger foundation on which to build a brighter, healthier future.

 

The Children and Family Services Act is a vital piece of legislation that protects one of Nova Scotia's most vulnerable populations, children experiencing abuse or neglect. It happens far too often. To ensure the Act remains effective and responsive to the evolving needs of children, families, and communities, we conduct a review every four years. That review was completed last year. In fact, last week we received the CFSA review committee's final report.

 

I want to thank the committee for their time and expertise throughout this process and for their thoughtful recommendations. The purpose of the Act is to protect children from harm, promote the integrity of the family, and ensure the best interests of children. In its final report, the committee acknowledges the strength of the legislative framework we have in place today. That is encouraging. I look forward to reviewing the recommendations in more detail with staff of the department and to working with partners to ensure every young person in Nova Scotia has the protection and support they need to thrive.

 

At the Department of Opportunities and Social Development, our work often involves supporting families and children during times of crisis. For the past several years, we have prioritized shifting from a crisis-driven system to one focused on prevention and early intervention, ensuring families get the support they need sooner. This approach leads to better outcomes and reduces reliance on costly, less-effective interventions. That's why we continue to invest in prevention and early intervention programs for children, youth, and families across Nova Scotia.

 

One key initiative is the Parenting Journey program, which provides additional support for families with complex needs. This program is available in more than 38 communities across Nova Scotia. Parenting Journey is a home visitation program that offers individualized support to families facing social, emotional, and familial challenges. It also includes culturally relevant supports for Indigenous, African Nova Scotian, and Acadian families, ensuring services reflect the diverse needs of our communities.

 

We also offer the Family Connections program, which provides support to expectant families facing difficulties or challenges that put them at risk. Families Plus is an intensive family preservation service that works with families in crisis, particularly those whose children are at imminent risk of being placed in out-of-home care. This program takes a holistic approach, addressing families' needs. The program helps ensure children can remain safely within their family's home whenever possible. For youth, the Youth Outreach program promotes better long-term outcomes for youth ages to 12 to 19 who are in care. This initiative strengthens connections to community, culture, and supportive relationships, helping youth transition successfully as they move toward independence.

 

All this work - stabilization payments, support for youths transitioning to adulthood with the Path Program, prevention and early intervention, and the redesign of foster care - is focused on one goal: ensuring children and families have the resources they need to grow, thrive, and find their place in the world.

 

Employment supports and income assistance: There is no doubt that the rising cost of living is a significant challenge for many Nova Scotians. Inflation and increasing food prices are part of a broader set of economic pressures affecting individuals and families every day. My department is committed to ensuring vulnerable Nova Scotians have their basic needs met by providing essential financial support.

 

We also recognize that as the economic landscape evolves, so too must the way people access support. That's why a key focus of our work is adapting to these changes and ensuring community organizations have the resources they need to provide meaningful local-level assistance to those who need it most. We know breaking the cycle of poverty requires a long-term preventive approach, one that brings together government, partners, and communities to equip young people with the tools they need to succeed. Having worked in many schools, I have seen first-hand how important it is for youth to have the right connections at the right time through the right organizations. That's why we work with community-based groups that already have strong relationships with young people. Often youth don't even realize they are being supported by our department because the support comes through trusted, familiar connections.

 

Employment plays a critical role in a young person's life, helping build self-confidence, financial security, and essential life skills. Through our Employment Support Services team, we ensure vulnerable youth have access to skills training, education, and job opportunities that set them on the path to independence. To build on this commitment, we continue to expand and enhance our employment support programs.

 

Our commitment to young people is further reflected in the expansion of the Afrocentric Youth Development Initiative that, offered in this partnership with the Association of Black Social Workers, provides employment and life skills support to African Nova Scotian youth. This year the program is reaching 550 young people, far exceeding its original goal of 200 participants. These programs do more than provide training. They help young people connect to their cultural identity, build confidence, and eliminate systemic barriers to success.

 

A great example of this commitment is the EDGE program. Entering its fifth year and initially launched in select locations, EDGE has expanded to New Glasgow, Sydney, and the north end of Halifax. EDGE provides youth ages 18 to 26 with wraparound employment services through an innovative one-door approach, combining peer support with individualized mentorship. Designed in partnership with young adults, the program meets their unique needs, ensuring they have the tools and confidence to build a successful future.

 

As someone who has worked with youth for many years, I have seen the incredible potential that exists when young people are given the right opportunities. Programs like EDGE don't just help youth find a job. They help them see what's possible. They foster community connections, develop leadership skills, and provide real-world experience that lays the foundation for long-term success.

 

It is critical that youth see a path forward for themselves and believe in their ability to achieve their goals and build meaningful lives. By supporting vulnerable youth in furthering their education and gaining practical work experience, we're not only investing in their futures but also in the future of our province. With the right support, these young adults can break down barriers, achieve their goals, and step into futures filled with opportunity, prosperity, and pride.

 

The Education Works Bursary program is another key pillar of this effort. It covers half the cost of tuition and 100 per cent of books, fees, and health and dental costs for dependants of the Employment Support and Income Assistance program. These clients are pursuing studies at the Nova Scotia Community College.

 

[4:30 p.m.]

 

In 2023, the application process was streamlined by listing it as a student award at the college, improving accessibility and awareness of the program.

 

This year, 52 post-secondary students are being supported through Education Works, and 187 additional ESIA clients are attending post-secondary institutions with support through other programs. Many of them are the first ones in their families to attend post-secondary education, and we're incredibly excited to see them reach their career aspirations. One of the things we know is that when you have one child go to post-secondary or take on employment training, the next child or younger brothers and sisters often choose the same path. It's a positive experience for the whole family.

 

Another program making a difference is called Career Rising. This initiative provides dependants of ESIA and disability support clients, as well as youth in care, with valuable work experience in their communities. Participants aged 15 to 18 not only gain exposure to career opportunities but also receive an education bursary when they enrol in post-secondary studies. Delivered in partnership with the Nova Scotia Co-operative Council, Career Rising is another way we're investing in the next generation and helping young people build brighter lives.

 

Through these initiatives, we are creating pathways to success, ensuring every young person has the opportunity to reach their full potential.

 

Having a place to call home is something many of us don't think twice about. I know I never have, personally. We turn the key, we step inside, and we feel a sense of comfort and security. For many Nova Scotians, that simple sense of home remains just out of reach, a daily struggle that impacts every part of their lives. The reality is that housing insecurity can happen to anyone. A sudden job loss, an unexpected illness, or a change in circumstances can quickly turn a stable home into one with an uncertain future. That's why our approach to housing support is rooted in empathy and understanding.

 

Housing supports exist on a continuum because everyone's journey is different. Some people need temporary support just to get back on their feet. Others, due to more complex circumstances, need longer-term or more intensive help. The path isn't always linear. People may move through stages at their own pace, and sometimes they need to step back before they can move forward. As a department, we have an important role in supporting their journey. We work with individuals' precarious housing situations to help them stay in their homes whenever possible. For those experiencing homelessness, we provide safe, supportive shelter access to the resources they need to transition to permanent housing. That is the goal: a permanent house for every Nova Scotian.

 

At its core, this work is about more than housing. It's about dignity. It's about safety. It's about their health. It's about ensuring every person has a place to call home because when we provide stable housing, we are not just offering shelter. We're helping rebuild hope one person, one family, and one home at a time.

 

I'm sometimes asked what I mean when we talk about supportive housing. The truth is that homelessness is complex. It can stem from a wide range of factors: a lack of affordable housing, mental and physical health challenges, struggles with addiction, or the breakdown of a family or community support. The solutions, therefore, cannot be one size fits all. For some, the solutions are often not as simple as finding an available apartment.

 

Securing a home is only the first step. Maintaining stable housing requires ongoing support, and that's where supportive housing comes in. Supportive housing means more than just a roof over someone's head. It means ensuring the wraparound services are also in place. This could include harm reduction services, housing support, connections with health and mental health care, or physical health support. Without these critical resources, people with high needs often struggle to maintain housing, even when they get in it.

 

We also recognize that addressing homelessness requires a collective effort. The scale and complexity of this issue is too great for any one government, any one organization, or any one sector to solve alone. Real change requires a focused, sustained commitment, one that goes beyond short-term fixes to address the root causes of housing insecurity, homelessness, and poverty. It calls upon all of us - government, community organizations, private sector partners, and individuals - to be part of the solution.

 

The Province, through Opportunities and Social Development, Growth and Development, and Service Nova Scotia, among other departments, has been working collaboratively across all levels of government and with community and private sector partners to tackle this urgent issue. Over the past several years, our investments in housing and homelessness supports have grown significantly.

 

Since 2021, our department has increased funding for homelessness solutions by an astounding 1,300 per cent. Yes, you heard it correctly: 1,300 per cent increase. This investment reflects our deep commitment to making real lasting change because when we invest in housing, we're investing in people, we're investing in Nova Scotians, and we're investing in the future of Nova Scotia. When we invest in people, we build stronger, more resilient communities for all of us.

 

In this year's budget, we'll see another $10.5 million increase for a total of $130.5 million for new and continued initiatives to help those experiencing homelessness. For example, $77.9 million has been invested to extend and expand access to supportive housing for Nova Scotians. This includes $1.8 million to support the tiny home community in Lower Sackville, which houses up to 70 people experiencing homelessness; $33.6 million this year to increase and stabilize shelter capacity across the province; $16.3 million continued funding to service providers for community-based services and supports, including street outreach and the diversion funding; $2.7 million to address unsheltered homelessness, leveraging an equal investment from the federal government's Canada-Nova Scotia contribution agreement. I want to note, as well, that these are the latest in a series of investments our government has made in terms of addressing homelessness.

 

Throughout last year, the government was proud to invest in supportive housing initiatives, shelters, and culturally relevant housing across Nova Scotia. We have been working across government with our partners to create innovative solutions that meet the needs of Nova Scotians and communities. We have created more than 700 new supportive housing units across the province, including the tiny home community in Lower Sackville, the first of its kind in Nova Scotia. Up to 70 people live there.

 

We have also opened the Rose in downtown Halifax for up to 18 families with children. I was pleased to visit that facility. It is absolutely incredible. The Rose represents a vital step forward in supporting women, children, and families. It offers a safe shelter, essential services, and personalized care. With the addition of six more apartments in the coming months, the Rose will host up to 80 people.

 

We have added almost 200 new permanent shelter spaces in communities across the province and opened 200 places at six shelter villages. We have invested millions of dollars to support the incredible work of our service providers, which includes street outreach and diversion funding.

 

Last year, we were pleased to announce that the Bridge will remain in its current location on Wyse Road in Dartmouth. This first-of-its-kind clinic in Atlantic Canada provides essential health care for people experiencing homelessness, reducing emergency room visits and unnecessary hospital stays. The Bridge is a collaborative effort across multiple departments and the Nova Scotia Health Authority. It continues to operate as a shelter while offering on-site clinic access for both residents and community members referred by the Nova Scotia Health Authority. With a dedicated team of health care professionals, including a wellness coordinator, continuing care coordinator, and outreach worker, the Bridge provides wraparound supports that help residents improve their health and prepare for independent living.

 

This innovative model fills a critical gap, offering compassionate, accessible care to those who need it most. It's a powerful example of what we can achieve when we work together to find new solutions for complex challenges.

 

We know that Indigenous populations, African Nova Scotians, and people of African descent are disproportionately impacted by homelessness. We are funding projects that address specific cultural needs.

 

We have provided the Mi'kmaw Native Friendship Centre with more than $3 million for four supportive housing options for Indigenous families and individuals at risk of homelessness in the HRM. This investment includes the Diamond Bailey Healing Centre on the peninsula. It is for 21 individuals of all genders. Sage House, located in Waverley, is for nine female identified individuals. The fourplex in Bedford houses four female-led families with children. In partnership with the YWCA Halifax, we have 10 units for families with children in Mount Hope Village in Dartmouth. Support and programming at sites include elder support, cooking classes and other food programs, life skills training, parenting support, cultural ceremonies and traditions, and access to mental health and addictions support.

 

Having a home means having stability, a foundation that allows you to focus on work, access services, and build a brighter future. We are committed to making that a reality for all Nova Scotians, no matter what their current circumstance.

 

The work we've done so far is just the beginning. Our team is working hard to address the urgent crisis before us, whether it's expanding shelter options, last week's announcement of opening St. Patrick's Church shelter, increasing Winter shelter capacity, or creating shelter villages. At the same time, we remain committed to investing in long-term solutions. The Rose and tiny home community are shining examples of this shift. We are balancing the immediate need in crisis response with the necessity of building sustainable long-term solutions for the future. We understand the urgency of this issue and remain committed to supporting those facing significant barriers to safe, affordable housing.

 

Because housing is more than just shelter; it is the foundation for opportunity, growth, and a better quality of life. That is what motivates us.

 

I would be remiss if I didn't take a moment to acknowledge our dedicated community partners that work tirelessly alongside us to support Nova Scotians experiencing homelessness. As I said, this is a team effort. Over the past few years, their workload has grown significantly, and the challenges they face have only become more complex. Yet they continue to show up with compassion, perseverance, and an unwavering belief in the potential of the people they serve. They have my greatest gratitude.

 

I also want to thank our municipal partners for their ongoing collaboration. Addressing homelessness is a complex challenge, and their willingness to work with us toward shared solutions has been essential. We will continue to build on these partnerships, working together toward shared solutions. We know finding a home is life-changing, and we know there's still much work to do ahead.

 

Nova Scotians are looking to us collectively for solutions. Working together across levels of government, with municipalities, within communities, and with service providers, I am confident we can tackle this challenge and create a meaningful, lasting change.

 

The past several years have brought greater awareness to the deep divide that exists in our society, here in Nova Scotia and around the world, when it comes to racial inequality. We cannot ignore the fact that Black and African Nova Scotians continue to face unique challenges and risks, both at work and in their communities. We also know building trust in government systems with historically racialized communities that have not had positive experiences in the past is something we have to take on as a challenge. In fact, working in those systems is critical - making those connections.

 

Addressing these challenges requires sustained action and trust building. One key initiative is the Africentric Bachelor of Social Work Cohort. Developed with Dalhousie University to increase African Nova Scotian representation in social work, this program ensures culturally responsive services and greater opportunities in the field.

 

We are also supporting 2SLGBTQIA+ youth through funding for the Youth Project, which provides vital services, education, and advocacy. Additionally, our investment in the North End Community Health Centre's 28-unit supportive housing project is helping 2SLGBTQIA+ individuals secure stable, safe housing with the support they need.

 

Through these efforts and many others, we are taking action to address inequalities and build a province where all Nova Scotians feel valued, supported, and included. While there's much work to do, we are making real progress in building a stronger, more inclusive province.

 

Wrapping up, Budget 2025-26 builds on the work our government has already started and sets a path for the year ahead, a path this province can afford. This budget has real solutions for our most complex challenges, ensuring all Nova Scotians have an opportunity to live in a vibrant, healthy community and reach their full potential.

 

We recognize not everyone's journey looks the same, which is why we are providing targeted support to meet the diverse needs of our people. We know there's a lot more to do. By continuing to listen to our clients, advocates, partners, and staff, we will ensure our efforts remain focused on those whom we serve.

 

Finally, I want to extend my personal thanks to the team at the Department of Opportunities and Social Development. Your dedication and support have been invaluable as I have stepped into this role. Together, we are making a meaningful difference in the lives of many Nova Scotians.

 

[4:45 p.m.]

 

I'm ready for your questions.

 

THE CHAIR: According to the practice that has developed in this Legislature, the Opposition caucuses take turns asking questions for approximately one hour each. During a caucus's turn, the members within a caucus may take turns examining the minister on the Estimate resolution. Only the minister may answer questions. Caucuses are also expected to share time fairly with the independent member.

 

To begin the examination, I recognize the Official Opposition. The member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

 

LINA HAMID: I do want to take - through you, Chair - a moment to thank the minister for that. I also want to take a moment to recognize folks who do work in the Department of Opportunities and Social Development. Over the years, I have come across many of them, extremely hard-working folks dealing with some stressful situations - and I recognize all the individuals whose positions are funded by Opportunities and Social Development outside of the department, such as in non-profits.

 

Starting off, I do want to start with one of the final things that was mentioned, which was income assistance. Income assistance recipients who rent or own and do not qualify for disability are making about 30 per cent of what they would require to be at the poverty line in Halifax. An income assistance recipient who rents or owns and receives disability is still about 40 per cent below what the poverty line is.

 

Has the department calculated the cost of further raising the amounts to bring folks up past the poverty line? If so, can the minister table those calculations, please?

 

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Approximately 3.4 per cent of Nova Scotians received income assistance monthly in 2024-25, with an average of 24,543 households and a total of 36,828 beneficiaries receiving assistance each month.

 

We don't have the exact numbers for what it would take to get everyone above the poverty line, but we have made significant increases to the amounts they receive. We have increased it twice, and then at the request of many across the province, this government indexed that so it will keep up with inflation. We're moving in the right direction. We don't have the exact numbers you were asking for right now, but we're working - you know we're increasing the amount of money they're getting.

 

It's never enough, but we're working closely with our service providers to provide other supports, wraparound supports. People who are receiving income assistance understand that we are there for them, and we're there to provide the supports they need to cover their basic needs.

 

LINA HAMID: I'd ask, if possible, for that to be tabled before the end of the sitting because it's - we know there are available options. There are lots of great programs, whether directly through the department or funded through the department that support folks, but the dollar amount is still not enough. I'd love to see that tabled before the end of the sitting.

 

As well, I would like to - I'm wondering: What is the poverty measure that is being used by the Province, if that could be clarified?

 

Tying it to a second question - what poverty measure is used: What is the rationale behind the rates that are currently being provided to individuals?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The calculation we use is called the market basket method.

 

I want to be clear that we have raised the budget for income assistance every year in the last five years. It started in 2021-22 at $416,110; it's up to $603,276. That's a 44 per cent increase over five years. Again, as I said before, it's moving in the right direction.

 

We do take an analysis. It's called the Market Basket Measure. We can go into that a bit more if you want to.

 

LINA HAMID: I am familiar with the Market Basket Measure.

 

Unhoused folks are even more vulnerable as they continue to receive a reduced rate. The constant struggle to survive every day is all too consuming. The reason folks who are unfortunately unhoused tend to remain unhoused and receiving income assistance is because they're constantly trying to survive every day. That is too all consuming. Three folks so far have died this Winter while sleeping in tents. An adjustment to the rates could mean life or death.

 

Is there a reason why unhoused folks are not receiving the standard rate rather than the reduced rate?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We have three categories for income assistance. We have own and rent, board, and essentials. If you are unhoused, it would be essentials. It has gone up significantly over the last five years. In 2020-21, for a single person who is unattached to a home it was $280, and this year that rate has gone up to $403.

 

As you can see, as this crisis continues, we continue to provide extra supports to support them so they can make the Market Basket Measure approaching what they need for their basic coverage, their basic needs. That's a significant increase since 2020-21.

 

LINA HAMID: When talking about investing in Nova Scotians, increasing those rates would result in more folks being able to get off income assistance in the long run because they'll be able to focus on things other than trying to make sure they make it through the day. I'm speaking as someone who has supported folks receiving income assistance who are unhoused. My question is: Is there consideration of the additional costs that are accrued by the government due to the cycle of poverty being perpetuated due to the low income assistance rates?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We've made significant investments over the last several years. We have increased the disability support supplement by $200. We have made an individual one-time payment increase. We have a one-time school supplies supplement for people to support their children when they're going to school; it occurs in August and September. There's a $100 increase to the earned income exemption structure, with more pathways to the benefit.

 

One of the things we need to continue to focus on is connecting people who are currently on income assistance to jobs. That's why it's called Employment Support and Income Assistance. We need to connect people to good-paying jobs in Nova Scotia. If you look at a lot of the measures the government is taking, particularly in this budget, we're going to create more good-paying jobs. We have the training programs in place, and we can connect more Nova Scotians to the skill set they need to get a good job because the best social program in the world is a good-paying job so people can support their families, engage in housing, and make rent or, in the long term, hopefully purchase their own home. The best social program is a job.

 

LINA HAMID: Are folks receiving income assistance eligible for rent supplements delivered through the Canada-Nova Scotia Targeted Housing Benefit? If so, can the minister tell us how many income assistance recipients are receiving rent supplements through this program?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The answer is yes. Those rent supplements are a great resource not only for the people who receive them but for our service providers who connect people to getting those. We don't have the actual numbers because that program is administered by the Department of Growth and Development.

 

We do have a supportive housing program. We created it through CHAP - 700 new units across Nova Scotia. It was a five-year program. The goal was to get 1,085 new units. We've already created 700. We're ahead of schedule. We've made significant investments. That program is working, and the more units we have, the more people who can come in out of the cold and get the supportive housing they need.

 

In that supportive housing, they also have wraparound services. They do pay money to go into the supportive housing. It's usually about 30 per cent of their income. It's individualized to make sure we meet the needs of each individual recipient, but we're getting the job done, and we're going to meet that goal probably ahead of schedule if we continue on the same path we're on now.

 

[5:00 p.m.]

 

LINA HAMID: The minister had mentioned that there are three layers of income assistance rates, and one of them is supposed to cover the cost of sheltering. That's why, again, there are those three separate streams: renting or owning, boarding, or unhoused. Can the minister explain why income assistance recipients would require a rent supplement if those rates are sufficient?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: As I mentioned, the rent supplement program is actioned by the Department of Growth and Development. There are many low-income people across Nova Scotia who benefit from the rent supplement program who are not on income assistance. It's an umbrella program. If you're on income assistance, you have access to that program, as well.

 

Dealing with homelessness and making sure people have enough support so they can manage to meet their basic needs is not something one program or one department is going to be able to support. This is why we need multiple programs and multiple departments all pitching in together to, first, get people into safe housing, get people out of the cold, and in the long term, help build more units that are affordable, which will bring rent prices down so more people can get into safe and supportive housing. It's a whole-of-government approach. Income assistance is only one piece of that. It can't be that one program that solves this crisis. It has to be multiple programs supported by multiple departments. That's the direction this government is heading.

 

LINA HAMID: There are a number of areas - and I think the minister did mention the different supports that folks can receive - where income assistance recipients can apply for special needs assistance, one of them including over-the-counter non-prescription medications.

 

Can the minister provide us with the number of applicants who have received and been approved through the specific special needs assistance measure to date in the current fiscal year? I guess we're at the end of it.

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We don't have that number at our fingertips, but we will seek to get it and get it to you before the end of Estimates.

 

LINA HAMID: The department offers a poverty reduction credit of $500 per year to income assistance recipients whose incomes are below $16,000 annually. Can the minister tell us how many recipients so far in the current year have received this? If not available immediately, it can be tabled.

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We don't have the exact number, but the forecast - and it's going to be pretty close - is 11,758 recipients.

 

LINA HAMID: My question about that specific - the Poverty Reduction Credit is: How was that amount decided, and what is it expected to cover?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The Poverty Reduction Credit supports income assistance clients without dependants with a $500 per year contribution to help cover the cost of living. It's based on an advance to them that would cover their basic cost of living - that increase.

 

LINA HAMID: This is one I care deeply about because I was involved on the other side of it. The last Poverty Reduction Strategy through the Province was released in 2009. There's one that was released by the HRM and the United Way in 2018 and then a follow-up in 2024. That one is limited to HRM, so it doesn't give a full picture of what poverty looks like in Nova Scotia. It does give a pretty good picture but not full.

 

Is there a plan for the Province to do something - whether it's similar to what they had before? If so, is there a timeline?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: It's kind of a straightforward question with a pretty complex answer. I'm not an economist, but in general, we know poverty is the result of a mix of factors, including access to education and access to employment. The most significant of these is generational. We know there are also marginalized groups within Nova Scotia that suffer from higher rates of poverty, as I said in my opening statement.

 

You've seen some of the actions the government has taken. We've increased IA twice. We've indexed it so it will keep up with inflation. We're working with other departments like the Department of Growth and Development and the Office of Addictions and Mental Health - helpful programs across Nova Scotia.

 

It really is a collaborative response across government. It's not one plan or one strategy. We're working together with several avenues to support people who face challenges. As I said in my opening statement, I mentioned several programs. There are programs that meet the needs of many different facets of society, from children to those from marginalized groups to single people living alone to families living together. Our approach to poverty is a holistic one led by several departments working together with specific initiatives to try to reduce the number of people suffering from poverty in the province.

 

LINA HAMID: In the time that I worked in non-profit, I have seen up close and personal what poverty looks like for lots of different folks. It absolutely is complex and requires - it's not just the one thing. Seeing that our province does have the highest rate of poverty in the country, is there a reason we're not looking at getting departments together to plan out what steps we're going to take?

 

While it is excellent and very much needed to have an interdepartmental approach, something that can be seen and reviewed by the public and particularly community partners that would probably be involved in being able to perform the strategy would be important. I would like to understand a bit more why we're not looking at bringing the departments together to discuss a strategy that can be outlined.

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We do meet all the time. There are many government departments working toward collaborative solutions. In fact, we do have plans, programs, and supports. We work together. It's a multi-government approach, a multi-departmental approach.

 

You could look at the impact we have delivered in schools to support children suffering from low-income poverty. Without a doubt, the impact of the School Lunch Program has been a huge support to literally 75,000 children in Nova Scotia, many of whom suffer from poverty. That's going to be expanded. We have multiple programs in the school system, such as breakfast for learning. No one goes without food in the school system. The Department of Education and Early Childhood Development has stepped up in that way.

 

We have the Department of Growth and Development stepping up with the rent supplements and other supports they have for housing. Our department has multiple programs. We work closely with not only government departments but also our service providers, which provide different types of supports, meeting the needs of various components of people who suffer from poverty.

 

We have, as I said, a holistic approach. There are multiple government departments contributing. If you look at the specific programs in place, you can see the fact that the government has responded strongly and will continue to respond strongly. Indexing of income assistance was something that was called for time and time again by advocates and our service providers. It was this government that delivered that.

 

We have a holistic approach. We meet all the time. We work collaboratively to develop programs that sync together to support people who have ongoing challenges of poverty in Nova Scotia.

 

LINA HAMID: That does make me happy to hear. Again, it is the highest in the country, and in the time that I've been in Canada, between 2011 and 2025, it's visible. It's quite visible. I appreciate that there are meetings happening.

 

Would it be - the minister went into and sort of answered my next question, so I want to say thank you but, if I could, ask for a little more elaboration. We know child poverty is also quite high in Nova Scotia. Notable organizations have put together the child and family poverty report cards, giving detailed road maps of what can be done to tackle child poverty in Nova Scotia. Have those steps been included in the interdepartmental discussions? If so, can the minister elaborate what recommendations are being implemented?

 

[5:15 p.m.]

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Nova Scotia has the highest child poverty in the country right now. That is something I am personally invested in, working with our department and several departments to tackle that. We are working together on several initiatives to try to support children in the province. I mentioned the school lunch program. That's going to expand to all grade levels fairly soon. That's one step. Increasing income assistance rates for the last several years and indexing them is another. Providing families money to purchase school supplies is another. There are several initiatives that would exist on that report card that this government is initiating. We have increased the annual payment for families at the lowest income levels by $600 per child to $1,525. That benefit supports 39,138 children and 21,419 families as of December. That is a significant increase in support we provide directly to families who have children, a $600 additional benefit.

 

There are many ways that the government is approaching supports to try to lower child poverty in Nova Scotia. This is something I'm briefed on regularly. It's something that bothers me every night, in fact. I have instructed department officials to bring me options to try to support families with children who are in poverty, to lower that rate. I can promise the member across the way I will do everything possible to try to get Nova Scotia not to be the lowest anymore. In fact, I would love to see the day when we don't have one child in Nova Scotia who suffers from poverty.

 

LINA HAMID: I would love to see what the plan is. If the conversations are happening amongst the department, if at some point before sitting ends, even just a few bullet points, just something about what is being discussed interdepartmentally and what that looks like to Nova Scotians in terms of steps being taken toward eliminating all poverty but child poverty as well, of course.

 

I would like to jump into homelessness. With that, just where the minister had previously mentioned the Bridge, I do have some questions specific to the Bridge if I may. Obviously it's a fantastic program. We know that it's supporting almost 200 people with 120 employees. My understanding is the site is leased. I'm wondering what the cost is of that lease. Is there a plan for the lease to be renewed?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Good news. I think you're going to like this. We are in negotiations right now - the Department of Public Works is because they're the ones that would negotiate the lease to continue this program. The lease last year was about $12 million. The whole program cost over $19 million to run, but it creates great cost savings. Where the cost savings are is it keeps people who are residents there out of the hospital.

 

Every day they can be treated through the Bridge saves us great money and opens up hospital beds that they would go to. When you're looking at the amount of money we're investing in the Bridge, you have to always keep in mind that cost savings are on the other side of that. Even though it's between $19 million and $20 million total, probably net costs are lower. I don't have that calculation, but it would be one I would be actually interested in getting at some point. It would be a hard calculation because it's hard to say who would actually go into the hospital. It does keep a lot of people from using the health care system, opening up beds for other people because we're providing those services right there where they live.

 

LINA HAMID: That is exciting. I have a few more questions specific to the Bridge. My understanding is that the Bridge folks are actually waiting for a budget to be approved. I'm wondering when their budget will be approved for this fiscal year and what is the budget for next year?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: As the member knows, we're currently in the ongoing budget process now. With your support for the budget . . . (laughter) I can safely say that, in all seriousness, the Bridge is a program which we're very supportive of. As minister, I'm very supportive of it. We're in constant communication with the people who work there. They know we're going to stand behind them financially. We can't give them an actual budget until we have the money to give them. We communicate with them quite regularly. They know we're behind them.

 

On a couple of your previous questions, we are going to be able to provide you some points of what a poverty reduction strategy, as we give it to you - just where we're headed. Another figure about the Bridge: 60 people who were in the Bridge have moved into permanent housing. That program is actually - it truly is a bridge. It's a bridge to a home.

 

LINA HAMID: That really is awesome, exciting news. Every one person who is able to transition into permanent housing is amazing news and something to be celebrated.

 

My question is: Going back to how obviously important this program is, is the current funding model for the Bridge multi-year? If not, should it be multi-year? Has the department considered buying the site rather than leasing it?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Let's talk about the Bridge all night long. It's just nothing but good news.

 

Our department doesn't do the lease negotiations and purchase of property; those sort of decisions are made by the Department of Public Works. They will do what's in the best interest of the taxpayer of Nova Scotia, for the program, and for the department. It was a one-year lease.

 

In terms of multi-year support, it was a one-year lease we started with. As I said, our department is very committed to this program. It is producing above and beyond what we originally thought it could do. I don't think there's any concern that we'll be breaking away from that any time soon. We'll negotiate with the people who operate it to see what the best partnership we can form is. All options are on the table. In terms of the actual building and purchasing the building, that's a decision made by Public Works, which will do things in the best interest of both the service provider and the government of Nova Scotia.

 

LINA HAMID: I'm going to dive into folks who are sleeping in encampments or folks who experiencing homelessness. We do know that on the By Name List, which is just Halifax folks, there were 1,165 people as of February 5^th. We know for a fact that that's just a fraction of the number.

 

For example, I was a housing support worker with the refugee clinic for three years, and we didn't even know there was a thing called the By Name List until years into it existing. Those are, right there, hundreds of people who were not on the list who should have been. Going back to that, we know that the number is just a fraction of Nova Scotians actually living in core housing need.

 

What are we doing as a province to ensure that gaps are closed so that we can get a full picture of what homelessness looks like in all of Nova Scotia?

 

[5:30 p.m.]

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: First of all, I want to be clear that encampments are not the answer. The municipalities kind of manage encampments and make decisions around encampments. Our position is, we would rather see people inside in safe shelters, transitional housing, supportive housing, and then permanent housing. That's our goal as a department.

 

In terms of encampments, particularly in HRM, the By Name List is not a real accurate list that we can go off. Service providers use something called HIFIS, which gives caseworkers a little more framework around actually what is happening out there. There are not 1,085 people sleeping rough out there. That's just not what it is. We have seen a 60 per cent reduction in people sleeping in tents in Nova Scotia. A lot of that is due to the work of our service providers who do outreach. A lot of that is due to the actions of municipalities, particularly HRM. I met with Mayor Fillmore directly on this. We're working together, and we have the same mindset on this. We're working collaboratively to do that.

 

When you look at the rest of the country, they're seeing an increase in encampments, an increase in homelessness on the streets, even in Winter, when people are sometimes driven inside. Nova Scotia has actually seen a decrease. I think that's because of the strong partnership we have formed. As recently as last week, we announced another new shelter opening up, the St. Patrick's Church here in Halifax. That was a shelter that provided spots for 25 males. The first night it was open, 11 males took advantage of that. Currently, between our shelter spaces and our emergency shelter spaces in HRM, we now have a spot for every single person who's sleeping rough outside to go to if they choose. As a department, I believe our supports have provided the resources that our service providers and municipalities can use.

 

You can't force someone to go inside, but we have the spaces, because of the investments made by our department, in support of municipalities, in support of our service providers. There is a safe spot for everyone to go, even in the middle of Winter. It's an emergency spot or a permanent shelter, but the goal is to move them into transitional housing and into supportive housing because that's where we provide the wraparound services - think of the Bridge, which we just talked about. There are many wraparound services there. That's the key, we have seen, to moving people into more permanent housing.

 

It is the continuum, but right now, if someone is tonight in Halifax sleeping outside, we have a safe spot for them to go. We have service providers to connect in those spots who'll provide supports to get them in the spots and support whatever they need individually because people are outside for many different reasons. There is a spot for them to go, and I would hope that they would choose to take advantage of the resources that have been put in place.

 

LINA HAMID: About shelters, if I could ask the minister to kindly table a list of all the shelters that are connected with the province and what their capacity is. As well, I'm not sure if this is something you have immediately, but if not - sorry, I said “you.” If it's not available immediately, tabling it is fine as well. Can the minister also tell me how many are operating at 90 per cent capacity or more on a daily basis?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: On the member's first question, the answer is yes and yes. We can give you a lit of all the shelters that we have supported. We can't give you a list of how many people are in the beds because that changes every night, but we can give you a list of the capacity of each one of those shelters, and we'll table that. We're getting that information now, so it might even be by the end of tonight.

 

We get a weekly update, and I get briefed every week on the number of people who are using those shelters. The information I would have would be week by week. I don't get that information daily. That's the update; it shows us trends. I find personally as a minister that information very valuable because it gives me a trend line I can see over time. It would fluctuate based on the weather, quite frankly, I would say. A night like this where it's a little warm, there would be less; a night when it's really cold, there might be more.

 

We don't just look at the snapshot. We look at a trend over a week-to-week basis; that's how I get the information. The information I get, we can transfer that to you quite easily.

 

LINA HAMID: I really appreciate that. If at all possible to table what the trends are like, that would be fantastic - amazing. Thank you.

 

The last Point-in-Time Count released in 2022 showed that 33 per cent of those surveyed lost their housing due to rental issues such as eviction, renoviction, or being priced out of the market. Is the minister able to confirm if their department is working with other departments to stop the flow of individuals entering into homelessness? Is there some type of interdepartmental plan?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The Point-in-Time Count is done by the federal government. The last time they took that data was last month. We haven't received it yet. We will fairly shortly. We actually do use that data to help drive our decision‑making. Many of you will know former Deputy Minister Rosalind Penfound, a very talented deputy minister and bureaucrat and public servant. She has been hired to work across government departments on several issues around homelessness. We talked about the holistic approach. We have one person who manages all that. That's who it is. I know her myself, and she's very effective.

 

One of the components of that is prevention. There's a lot of work being done across these government departments. I've mentioned several of them. I think there are up to 10. There's a whole process to support the coordination of our departments in terms of approaching homelessness. A big component of that is a whole stream, which involves prevention.

 

LINA HAMID: We've heard from seniors - I heard this quite a bit in the few months that I've been the MLA for Fairview-Clayton Park - that seniors who are on waiting lists to get housing are particularly vulnerable in the situation of evictions. Is there anything that - this could be another thing that probably involves more than one department. Is the Province doing anything to address that specifically - seniors who are waiting for housing being evicted - something to protect them in that time?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The first event I did as the new Minister of Opportunities and Social Development was to go over to Atlantic Street and cut the ribbon on the Ron Cooper Shelter Village, which is a shelter village that is designed for people 55 years and over. It is absolutely fantastic.

 

Maybe some of you, especially the ones from around Metro, knew Ron Cooper. I knew him well - fantastic guy. I'm in contact with his son regularly here.

 

That is providing opportunities to cook food and have meals. Many of them are connected to employment. It's a specific shelter village designed to support people ages 55 years and over. From talking to the residents who are already there - I'm sure if we talk to the ones who have moved in since - you will see a sense of community already developing.

 

Ron Cooper did tremendous outreach work in the community. It was well named. It was a great event. As a new minister, I said, “This is a type of work I want to engage in.” If you haven't had a chance to get over there, you could sure take a look.

 

We have a designated stream of designated supports, particularly for seniors who are facing homelessness or who are facing an attachment to a permanent residence.

 

LINA HAMID: We know the Manitoba government recently released a plan to end chronic homelessness in the province, different from a housing plan talking about how they're going to be bringing more units into the market but rather a plan that specifically talks about how they're going to eliminate chronic homelessness. I do have it, and I can table that if needed.

 

With that being said - going back to a plan - is there a plan in place about how we're going to tackle chronic homelessness in Nova Scotia?

 

[5:45 p.m.]

 

THE CHAIR: Thirty seconds. The honourable Minister of Opportunities and Social Development.

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I'll be quick here. First, we have - also on the last question - diversion supports, which stop people from being evicted. We can intervene and support them. I'll talk about that later, but that's where we are there.

 

We're aware of the Manitoba report. Our officials have looked at it. There are some good things they're doing in Manitoba, and we're taking a look to see if we can bring any of those initiatives here. We look across the country. Everybody is doing good things. If you take a look, Houston has a Housing First program. We're taking a look at that right now.

 

THE CHAIR: Order. The time for the NDP caucus has elapsed. Before we move on to the Liberal caucus, Minister, would you like to have a brief recess?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We were able to get the information the member had requested on the number of shelters and the capacity at each shelter, so I've tabled that.

 

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

 

HON. DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I look forward to having more of a conversation than a lot of questions in the next hour. Thank you, staff, for being here with us tonight.

 

I'm going to jump right into it. I want to talk about autism. I want to talk about the supports the department provides. I work closely with the Cape Breton chapter of Autism Nova Scotia. They do great work. All the organizations do great work all over the province. I see the work family members do in this cool system each day.

 

My first question is: What does the department fund to Autism Nova Scotia? Is that expected to increase this year?

 

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The main funder of Autism Nova Scotia from the government is through the Office of Addictions and Mental Health. We do interact with them regularly, but it's mostly individual project-based funding that we do. The main funding they have for operations would be through the Office of Addictions and Mental Health.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: A confirmation: A lot of the policy's design would be through the Office of Addictions and Mental Health, not the minister's department. Okay, I'll have a bunch of questions for them.

 

I do want to talk about the Remedy, something we talked about a lot the last time I had to do Estimates with the minister previous. We're always looking for an update on the Remedy. I work closely with some great organizations at home, whether it's Breton Ability - they're a great organization - or some of the other organizations that support folks with their varying abilities and support their families. It's a big transition, as we all know. We're moving away from the traditional environment where you have these larger facilities and, rightfully so, moving people out into communities.

 

Can the minister give me an overview of where they stand on the targets for 2025 and the budget allocated?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I had a bit of contact, in terms of the Remedy, before I became minister, but I didn't know an incredible amount about it, but the public servants working in this area are doing what I would call Herculean work to provide this transition. It is a significant transition from the way we used to do things.

 

As I've said a few times in this House, change is tough, but the change we're initiating here is well worth it. I've said this often when I'm talking about the Remedy. If you fast-forward, it's a five-year program to do this and accomplish this. We're on track to do it, and I'll talk more about that in a minute. If we could fast-forward 25 years from now and look back, you're going to find out this was probably one of the best things Nova Scotia has ever done to support people with disabilities.

 

Think about the way it was before. We had people living in institutions. They had little choice in the services they would get. They had little choice or control in their own lives. That's what the human rights challenge was all about, and that's what the Remedy's all about. When I think about this, I wonder what other people had been in institutions before? How do we - we've done this for years, in terms of the history of governments across the world.

 

We used to put children who lost their parents, for whatever reason, into orphanages, but now we have a foster system. We have other programs we do to connect them with existing family members. We don't put children in institutions anymore. We use the foster system. They have a home. They have a family. Would we ever go back? We wouldn't.

 

We're going to look back at these years - this is a lot of work, and it's challenging work. The public servants who are running this program often say they feel like they're flying the plane as they're building it, but it's on track.

 

We have specific benchmarks we're trying to reach as we move through this. We make regular reports. There is an annual report coming up in May. I'll share that with the member for sure. I can tell you that in many ways, we're moving this forward very quickly; 20 per cent of people have been moved out of institutions. There are no new people going into any institutions as of January 1, 2025. We have turned the corner there.

 

The one issue we were slowed down a little bit on is trying to provide the staff to meet the challenges. It takes a lot more staff to meet the challenge of the Remedy because it's more individualized. We have set up regional hubs where if you are currently in an institution, you have to move out. We have people working in those communities, with those families, with those people who have the disabilities to try to connect them to a place to live and provide them supports and direct income supports so that they can have a meaningful life with the supports they need. We have hired 120 new staff to support this, but it's a challenge to find the qualified staff to do it.

 

That's where recently, as of January, we have now a workforce strategy to up our game in terms of recruitment and retention of staff. As early as last week, I announced a new agreement with the Nova Scotia Community College. We're providing tuition support for up to 75 new people for the community college to get certificates so they can provide these supports. There are other agreements we have with other institutions for another 25. We're providing 100 per cent of funding for tuition and books and other things they need. We have upped our game in terms of recruitment and retention and training staff.

 

This is a five-year program. We're in Year 2. I'm updating this weekly. In my opinion, we will actually meet this challenge. It was a big challenge; I don't think people realized how onerous this is in the general public. People within the disability community know. They know the Herculean efforts the department is putting forward - our service providers and partners, the work they're doing, the supports we put in place so that many of these people who are providing these services can change their business model to adapt so that they're in alignment with the Nova Scotia Human Rights Remedy. By the end of these five years, in 2028, I'm convinced that we will have the Remedy in place and that we'll have a better future and a better system for people with disabilities now as we transition and going forward into the future.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I wholeheartedly agree. I have talked to many of the staff, and I appreciate his support for the staff. That's heavy lifting. As I said, a lot of my family have worked in this world. I remember the old children's training centre in Sydney way back when. I have referenced Breton Ability, and there are some other people who have been working in these organizations trying to make the transfer - which is important, to transition away from it. I have one question around housing. This was an issue too because, as we transition folks into families and into communities, the housing is a big issue really right across the board. We all talk about it. We all see it in our community.

 

My question through you to the minister: Is he confident that the housing supply is there? Are there any concerns that he or the department have around ensuring that the housing will be there to support these families as they make the transition?

 

[6:00 p.m.]

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I thank the member for his patience. There's a lot to the Remedy. As I said before, 20 per cent of people who were living in institutions have now been moved out of institutions. So far, so good; housing has not been an issue. The heart of the Remedy - for anyone watching, you may not be that familiar with it - is choice. That's something that peppers the Remedy decision. Many of these people have never had the opportunity to choose where they're going to live. There hasn't been that option. There hasn't been that ability. The Remedy is really individualized.

 

We have over 300 small options homes across the province. The Remedy allows people to live together in groups of four, and the small options homes can provide the supports they need. People can choose to move into those small options homes. They can choose to stay in a small options home. The money follows the individual. It doesn't follow the home. Again, there's that individual choice.

 

There's a program where they can choose to live with a roommate. It might be a roommate who is fully able, but the funding for the disabled person who's in that home helps support the able person, as well, can buy them supports and services. There are other options where they can live.

 

They may choose to go back home. They may live with another family member because now the funding is there to provide them the respite, the supports, and engagement in their community. It's about choice and community. They can choose where they're going to live. They can choose how they're going to live and with whom they're going to live. They have never had that option before.

 

We know, as we move more people out of institutions, we have the supports in place for them. Housing hasn't been a problem yet. If it does become a problem, we're going to intervene very strongly. We're anticipating that. So far, so good. Really, it's hard to predict because it's hard to predict what those choices are going to be.

 

As anyone who has worked people with disabilities before, it's such a continuum of different types and levels of disability. As a school principal - there are students with severe disabilities in the schools where I have been principal or teacher. When they come to school, you don't even know, but they need massive resources at home, students with some autism and other issues. It doesn't display at school because the supports are there, but when they get home, there are huge issues.

 

It's so individualized, and the level of care and the level of support is so individualized, that we're going to have to get a little further along here to see if housing is going to be a huge issue. We know housing is an issue across the continuum for all society right now. That's something that we will deal with if it comes up. So far, so good. We're 20 per cent of the way there, and housing has not been an issue so far.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Actually, respite is something that I think we need to have a real conversation about, respite for families. It's tough. My wife is a learning centre teacher, so I see this every day. My mother was involved with the children's training centre. It's something I've been talking about with my family for years. Respite is really going to be something that I'm looking to table bills on. I appreciate that the Office of Addictions and Mental Health plays a part in that. Respite is part of this, too. With the Remedy, are you looking at increasing - well, you will be, because you're going to be transitioning people. In this budget particularly, is there any funding - it may not come under your department; I just want to make sure you let me know. Respite funding for families, are you looking to increase that at all in this year's budget?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The individualized funding that the clients will have is based on the number of challenges they face. There's an assessment done. Part of the individualized funding can be used to support them, engage in things like day programs, that currently exist. There's STEPs on Arthur in Truro, SummerStreet Industries. There are many that come to mind across the province that our department has a part in funding, as well.

 

Respite is something that we are looking at as part of the next step of the Remedy, so stay tuned. This is something that we anticipate will be an issue, and it's something that we are already making plans for. It's an important part, because people who are going to be working with people with disabilities, depending on the challenges they face individually, often need a break. As the member said about his wife being a learning centre teacher - I've been in schools for almost 30 years. I was principal in Tatamagouche, the elementary school, for 10 years. I lived in that community. That school was actually named as one of the top 40 schools in Canada, based on the work we did with students with special needs. I can tell you, the reason that we were so highly supported in that, the reason we were able to get that recognition, was because of the ability of the teachers in that building to design individualized programming for those students.

 

Sometimes the principals get credit for the work teachers do. I'm sure your wife probably complains about that over the years. A highly skilled learning centre teacher or a highly skilled classroom teacher who's willing to individualize instruction can often support students. They can achieve things you would have never thought they could have. I've had so many parents in my office almost in tears when they see the growth their child can have because of the ability of an individual teacher. That provides those parents respite many times during the school day. When the client is older and they're out of school, there have to be programming and supports in place, whether it be for the individualized funding, finding spots that can provide that respite, or a program coming from our department or other departments in the provincial government that provide that respite. That's something that we understand is going to be needed. It's something that we're going to engage in. I say, stay tuned on that.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: The respite conversation is actually very important. Chair, you were a teacher yourself, and we really need to have a conversation around that. This isn't completely the minister's department, but the day is going to come when we're going to need better after-school programs for folks. That funding, the qualifications - I don't have the documents with me, but I'll happily give them to the minister. There are some - I don't want to say “irregularities,” but there are some differences around how you qualify for respite, who qualifies for respite, and the assessments that kids have to go through. We can talk about that. I'm going to get the information from some advocates - totally upfront. I'll show it to the minister when I get it. I'm going to have a conversation in the next couple of days. It's something that I'm looking to actually table a bill on.

 

It's not even the money question. It's actually just around some qualifications. I have some stuff in front of me. I'll read it. I'm not going to - bear with me. I haven't really gone through it myself yet. What the person is saying to me is essentially that there seem to be different eligibility guidelines for the Disability Support Program and the Direct Family Support program and Enhanced Family Support for Children program policy. There's no mention of IQ levels. I'll give this to you, and I'll happily have a conversation with staff. There are some irregularities around that. I don't want to get too far down that road yet because I haven't done my homework. I see the Minister of Health and Wellness is in the room, as well. I had a conversation with her about it, too. (Interruption)

 

I'm sorry. I forgot. I'm not allowed to acknowledge somebody in the room. (Laughs) If he's listening, we're keeping tabs.

 

I do want to talk about some of the programs that are available to families. Chair, you know yourself that there are some great organizations at home. Horizon Achievement Centre is a great example, supports families with varying abilities. We're all very proud. We have all kind of played a part, multiple governments, in ensuring the funding is there for that beautiful facility, doing work around the Dominion ball field, you know what I mean? The Hawks Dream Field, it's great. Northside East Bay - same thing. Making sure that - former premier McNeil used to say to me all the time - he had a great line - he always said that we have to do whatever we can to ensure that people feel welcome and belong in their communities and have every opportunity that they can, that everybody feel supported. We went through a big investment in many of these organizations. Seats are always a concern. That's the question - that we need more seats. There's more demand.

 

Is there a plan in this budget to fund more seats in these wonderful facilities that people access for employment training every day?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I think in my opening comments I talked about the fact that we anticipated - one of the challenges we were going to face, because we're facing it across government, is workforce. One of the great things about the Remedy is the money doesn't fund seats. It actually funds individuals. As I mentioned, we announced a bursary program supporting training for additional staff to provide these services, particularly at these regional centres. We'll be able to provide supports across the province.

 

[6:15 p.m.]

 

We have to make sure that we have the funding in place and that we have the workforce in place to support the Remedy. That's part of the strategy for this year. Year 1 was basically for laying the groundwork; working with service providers; providing support, so they could adapt their business models; getting those institutions closed and moving our clients out of those institutions, and providing housing for them.

 

In anticipation of workforce challenges we're going to face, we have a workforce strategy. The first initiative in that workforce strategy was the tuition support we're providing. There are several components to that, and I will table that for you so you can take a look at it. In the end, individualized funding is based on the assessment of the level of support each individual needs. That money will be able to be used to provide some support. Some of our clients may choose to use that money to learn how to play an instrument, hire a tutor.

 

Again, going back to choice, going back to supporting each individual client's needs, the flexibility within the Remedy is something that we always keep in mind when we're designing the programs. Again, we don't fund seats. We're funding people. We will fund the staff that is needed to support the Remedy. There is budget allocated for that, and we'll continue to provide those supports. It's more of an art than a science because each individual with disabilities has different challenges and different needs and will make different choices.

 

As we move further, we have the staff in place to help design individual plans and conversations with the client or maybe their family, depending on the severity of the disabilities they suffer from. Again, that flexibility, that individual funding has a flexibility built into it so we can develop individualized plans that meet the needs of individual clients and the families that are there to support them.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate the conversation back and forth, and I can appreciate that it is a fluid situation. Regardless of who is in government, this is a core mandate thing. This is important work. Actually, I'll provide the information to the department about some of the questions I have around respite and irregularities I think I'm seeing when it comes to qualifications for respite care.

 

I want to reiterate that that number needs to increase. We need to find ways that we can - the Remedy does a lot of that. There are a lot of recommendations in there. I don't know if staff is working through that. This conversation flows from multiple departments: Health and Wellness, Addictions and Mental Health, Education and Early Childhood Development.

 

I can say that one of the challenges is that a lot of families can't go back to work. Programs being available after school, Summer programs for kids - it's very limited. There are only so many that can get in. I hear these stories all the time - the transition from school to adulthood - post-school. I hear the stories. A student leaves the school system, and really, what's next? We have to all come together to try to figure that out.

 

That's through the Remedy. That's through housing. That's through the Horizon Achievement Centres of the world increasing the capacity at those facilities so more people can train - not only train but really have a community setting where they can be with their friends, and they can learn. You're a trades guy. You get it, Chair. You go to those wonderful organizations yourself, and you see it for yourself.

 

I'll continue to advocate for that, and we're going to try to put some legislation together, but in a holistic way where we're supporting one another. I think we can do a lot to help kids and their families.

 

I'm going to change the subject, and I'm going to talk about shelters. I'll go broad to start. We know that homelessness is a big concern right across the province. We have seen an increase at home, as well. My question to the minister is: Is there an increase in the budget this year to support more shelters across the province?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I want to thank the member for his question. I'm going to really quickly talk about what he was talking about before he asked the question, if that's okay. I'll answer both.

 

Just so people understand this at home, your wife will understand this very well. (Interruption) Is she watching? She's texting you now, is she?

 

To the member's wife, she will know that, currently in the Education Act, students can stay in school till the age of 21. As a school principal, I was totally supportive of that because a lot of times school becomes a second home, particularly to students with disabilities. If you can have a consistent learning centre teacher or a consistent couple of teachers in the school who support that, they connect with them. The downside is, they have gone all the way through school and, because of our inclusion policy and basically the way we have worked with students with challenges for many years now, they move along with their cohort. At 18 years old, the rest of the cohort leaves, and if there's no great place for these students to move on to that meets their needs, they often stay till they're 21. The adults hopefully will stay. In school systems, adults move and change, as well.

 

Many of them don't get to stay with their cohort. That's kind of a shame. There is a gap there, so we have put in place what is called the School Leavers program for those students. That's designed to support them. We can go into the details at some other time because that's not really your question this time. There is a program that we're trying to fill that gap with. In my opinion, it would be great to see every one of those children graduate with their cohort and move on to the next stage of life at the age-appropriate level, which is usually around 18 in most societies, including Canada.

 

I'm hoping this will work very well to support and fill that gap. If not, the school system will be there. It always has been there, and we can connect them with other students in the school, but unfortunately, those students typically are younger, depending on the size of the school. There is a program going in place to support students with disabilities when they reach 18 or even when they're 21. As soon as they leave school, there's going to be some support that previously didn't exist.

 

The budget for shelters will be rising this year by almost $10 million. There are a couple of different components and budget lines. That's in transitional housing and shelter housing. The overall budget increase for this this year is about $10 million. I announced probably almost two weeks ago now a $1.1 million investment that we made in the St. Patrick's Church, which added 25 shelter spaces for males in the former church, and with the opportunity to expand that to 40.

 

Now we don't operate that, as Souls Harbour Rescue Mission is the service provider that operates it. That was in conjunction with the HRM that did a lot of the work to get that building ready. It saved the building, or it's in the midst of saving the building. It's good use of an existing building. We look for those opportunities across the province.

 

The Department of Public Works is looking for more appropriate shelter spaces in areas where we don't have enough capacity. If people know of a suitable space where a shelter might work well - I met with the mayor of the CBRM, Mayor Clarke, whom I know well. He is looking at some spaces because he wants to up the capacity in the Sydney area with the CBRM. The member may be aware of that. He has probably talked to him, as well.

 

We look to work with municipalities across the province. If they need more space or there's the need, our department is there for them to connect to. If we are purchasing a space through the Department of Public Works, they would be the ones who would operate that, but the funding would come through our department.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Just to go back before I ask my next question, this is what I'm working on, just so the department is aware, and this is what we're hearing from advocates. It's around the criteria for parents qualifying for respite. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be that currently parents need to have a psycho-educational assessment done for their child, but this isn't possible for children who are non-speaking, causing challenges for parents to navigate proper supports for their children having diverse needs. That's the thing I'm talking to advocates about.

 

I think that wouldn't - that may be the minister's department or the Office of Addictions and Mental Health. I'm going to do my homework on that, and I'll come back on that. I think it's important if there's a gap there.

 

I was actually curious about the CBRM because I know there was a lot of talk around - and there are some great organizations in the CBRM that are doing the work to support our most vulnerable. There's a new, great facility in Glace Bay that's supporting - I know there are some great organizations around Sydney that do great work each and every day to support our most vulnerable.

 

There was some conversation about a new facility in Sydney. Mayor Clarke talked a bit about it in his campaign. I'm looking at combining everything under one roof, so if somebody is coming for support, they would go to one spot where you would have the great work of the Ally Centre of Cape Breton; you'd have your shelter; you would have other supports through the government.

 

Through you, Chair, to the minister: Is there talk of building a new facility in Sydney?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We've had initial discussions with the CBRM. I've spoken personally to the mayor about it. He was down, and we talked about it. I personally like the ability to have wraparound services offered all in one spot. As minister, it's something I'm very open to. I know this is kind of going to be a conversation between the staff of the CBRM and our department, so stay tuned, I guess.

 

We're definitely open to working with our municipalities across the province. If there's a need and the opportunity to provide an appropriate space and allocate the services necessary to meet the needs of our clients in that area, we're definitely very open to working with anyone who can provide that.

 

We do know that, particularly up in the Sydney area, there are several very excellent service providers that could operate that type of facility. We're very open to that. That's something that probably I would have conversations with the Leader of the Liberal Party on directly, since he is an MLA from that area, as well as other MLAs from Sydney and anywhere in the CBRM.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate the answer. It has been an ongoing conversation in the CBRM. I think a big part of that, too, is we've seen some pretty substantial growth in the last number of years. Of course, when you see that, you're also unfortunately going to see some more people who may struggle. We know that the cost of living has been challenging for folks. I appreciate the minister's comments on that.

 

[6:30 p.m.]

 

Of course we're happy, and I'm happy as one of the local MLAs, to work with my colleagues from Cape Breton and do whatever I can to support new facilities for the CBRM.

 

When it comes to food insecurity, we all know food insecurity is a big problem for communities across the province. Unfortunately, we're in a situation where our food insecurity is one of the highest in the country. I know we all support the lunch program. Anything we can do in the schools for our kids, because they're there - I say kids, but they're not all kids. I have two small kids, so they're my kids.

 

Is the department looking at increasing the budget for providers across the province that help to feed folks who need it the most?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I would agree that food insecurity is definitely an issue Nova Scotia faces. It happens in many places across Canada and North America, but it's something our government takes seriously. That's why we have an intergovernmental agency approach to this. It's like we were talking about with the previous member; there's a holistic approach to this.

 

Our department funded Feed Nova Scotia right before Christmas, which is a time when many families need support, to the tune of $1.5 million. We're working with collaborative food networks, which are community based across Nova Scotia. We provide funding for them. We're in ongoing discussions with them for funding envelopes for this year. This is something we have many of our departmental staff working on directly.

 

The biggest initiative we saw in the Fall was the Nova Scotia School Lunch Program. He has young children; I have grandchildren. That's a program that's made a real dent in the way families have to support their children. It takes a lot of pressure off, and that's something our department, the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development, and several departments are involved in. It was implemented just at the elementary level.

 

That's going to expand - because it was successful - more quickly for the junior high and high school level. I can't give a date on it, but you're going to see it happen quickly now, ahead of schedule, because of the success of the program. There are still some bugs to work out in some schools - some parents will say that - but overall, it's been a huge success and probably one of the most impactful programs I've seen a government implement lately.

 

We are working with our service providers, our food networks, and Feed Nova Scotia. OSD is aware that food insecurity is definitely a challenge, and we have programs to try to meet the needs for Nova Scotians from one end of the province to the other.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: It's Feed Nova Scotia - I know it serves a lot. This may be a quick snapper. Feed Nova Scotia: the government invests through Feed, and Feed does great work. Does Feed service all of Nova Scotia, or is it - because there are some other providers we work with in Cape Breton, through New Dawn Enterprises or through some others, that may not be directly connected to Feed Nova Scotia.

 

My question is: What kind of money does the department provide to those organizations outside of Feed?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We provide financial supports for these programs across the province, but it may not be direct support for all the food banks. Some of the food banks will get support from Feed Nova Scotia or from the collaborative food networks. We fund the larger, broader umbrella organizations, and the funding - individual food banks and some of these individual programs the member is talking about would receive that funding, but it would come and flow through Feed Nova Scotia and the collaborative food networks.

 

We wouldn't fund all the individual food banks, all the individual programs, but they're likely getting funding from our department through the umbrella organizations.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: It's a capacity issue for me. It's not a negative comment toward Feed, it's just rural - when you get outside some of the major urban centres, you're into a different kind of realm when it comes to how those tentacles flow.

 

There are lots of great volunteers who help in those situations. In some major events, we've seen our international students really step up with Khalsa Aid Canada, come in and help, and provide a lot of food and support to the community.

 

Just like that, we only have nine minutes left for questions.

 

I will talk about the child and youth office for the last eight minutes. We support the implementation at large. It comes from the recommendations of the report for the Nova Scotia Home for Colored Children. Nova Scotia still has the highest child poverty rate in Atlantic Canada. However, the creation of this office was put in - it's kind of in the Financial Measures (2025) Act, and there isn't a lot of great detail in the departmental budget. In the last eight minutes, if the minister wants to give me an overview of that, I would appreciate it.

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I've answered this question in the House a couple times since becoming minister. This is an office I personally support. It's going to be a great initiative for children, not only now but into the future. This is something for which all three recognized parties have put legislation forward in the past, and it was our party, under the leadership of our Premier and previous ministers, that was able to get that legislation in place.

 

We're committed to it as a government. Currently where it's sitting is that in the department, they're developing regulations; we're working on processes for staffing and hiring and what the scope of that office is going to be. It's something, as a minister, I am personally committed to, but I've also told departmental staff that, as minister, I want to make sure, when we set this office up, we do it right.

 

I want them to work diligently on providing the regulations, which will then come to us to approve, to make sure this office truly does the job we want it to do. I know some people say, Why isn't it happening more quickly? Well, one of the reasons is that I want to make sure, as minister leading the department, that the office we set up - because we only get one chance to set it up and then you're having to make changes afterwards, which are more challenging and more difficult.

 

We've done jurisdictional scans, for example, looking at what other places have - New Brunswick, for example. Kelly Lamrock is up there. I know him. I know he does good work in that area up there. We want to make sure the office we set up here in Nova Scotia serves Nova Scotia well, not only now but into the future.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: He's absolutely right. This is something we all support. It's important, and I'm hopeful that it continues to grow, and it continues to support as many people as possible.

 

I guess my next question is around the supports that we provide to transition houses around the province. Again, I always use examples from home. We know intimate partner violence is really - it's very sad, what's happening in the province. Hearing the stories. I've had the opportunity to talk to and will continue to talk to survivors and their families. I know some of this would be under the Advisory Council on the Status of Women, as well.

 

My question through you to the minister: Is his department looking at any kind of funding for these organizations, whether it's through some of the programs, or some of the staffing, or any kind of supports?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Our department is engaged in this. In January, several ministers, including the Minister of Health and Wellness, the Minister of Justice, the Minister responsible for the Advisory Council on the Status of Women Act, and I, with the Premier, met with representatives of THANS, which is the association representing transition houses across Nova Scotia. They have made a request. This request is being considered.

 

We all know that any incident of intimate partner violence, or gender-based violence, is one too many. This is a societal issue that I believe Nova Scotia must address. It is an epidemic. We all agree on that. This House voted that it was an epidemic. No dollar figure is going to solve a societal problem. This has to be a transformative change that really we start with when children are young, as they grow up. There has to be work done in schools, programming in schools. We have to have programs to support men and boys. We have to have programs to support women when they leave horrible situations.

 

This is something that I think all of society needs to be engaged in. The government is going to be there. The Opposition will, I'm sure, support government initiatives to try to deal with this issue, but it's going to take more than just government. It's going to take all of us. It's going to take every man, woman, and child in Nova Scotia to change the way we have relationships with each other. We need healthy relationships.

 

You can count on Nova Scotia as the government, under this Premier's leadership, who is directly engaged in this. This is something we're going to come up with, a good plan that's well funded. Support the great work that our service providers, including transition houses are working on this issue - but it's men's programs, it's school initiatives, it's societal. We need to have a safe place for people who suffer from gender-based violence to go when this happens. We also have to remember to make sure we take strong, bold steps in terms of prevention, so these issues don't take place in the first place.

 

THE CHAIR: With three minutes, the honourable member for Sydney-Membertou.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: I appreciate the answer from the minister, and he's absolutely right. It's something that we all agree, and we all have to come together as a Legislature to say - in Opposition, we'll make suggestions around funding. I think really, the key is going to be core sustainable funding that these organizations receive. That's their biggest request, if just to have some sort of line of sight, multiple-year funding. We know that there's an announcement coming. I think the sooner that can happen, the better, for these organizations.

 

I guess, my last question, it's probably more under mental health and addictions, but I always feel like there's a good relationship between the two. I think about places where adults go to recover from addiction. I know the Department of Community Services may have played a role in that. Talbot House is what I think of in Cape Breton. It's a place where people go to heal who struggle with addiction.

 

Is there funding in the budget this year to support great organizations like Talbot House?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: That really lies with the Office of Addictions and Mental Health. There's no funding from our department in the budget for that process or for those supports. I think if you check the budget line for the Office of Addictions and Mental Health, you will find supports there.

 

[6:45 p.m.]

 

I think, if you check the budget line for the Office of Addictions and Mental Health, you will find supports there.

 

DEREK MOMBOURQUETTE: Okay. Thank you. We only have a minute left, so I will get on my feet and thank the minister for spending an hour with me, answering some of my questions. The one thing that I'm very passionate about is this issue around respite care and trying to determine - that is going to be a big conversation. More families are going to need to have access to it.

 

Advocates are telling me there are some gaps in it. I'm happy to provide all of the information. I'm happy to be the champion on it. I hope the minister and I can sit down, not only himself but multiple - because it's going to affect multiple departments. I hope we can all sit down and do it, because like anything in here, we do lots of things to support a lot of different initiatives, but whatever we can do for our kids, that's where I'm at.

 

With that, Chair, it's only 19 seconds, so I'll happily pass it over to my colleagues from the NDP.

 

THE CHAIR: The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

 

LINA HAMID: Would the minister like a break?

 

THE CHAIR: The honourable Minister of Opportunities and Social Development.

 

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Yes.

 

THE CHAIR: Yes. We'll take a short recess.

 

[6:46 p.m. The committee recessed.]

 

[6:54 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

 

THE CHAIR: Order. The committee will come back into session.

 

The honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

 

LINA HAMID: I would like to talk about funding for the Fairview Resource Centre, if we could, just because they've requested some things be asked on their behalf. I think this probably applies to the majority of the family resource centres across the province. You had mentioned previously the Parenting Journey program. There are, I believe, folks at the department who carry out that work directly with families, but there's also funding that goes into family resource centres, so that they can run those programs, as well.

 

I'm not sure if that would be possible or not, but I would love to see, actually, the contract or the agreement that goes between the department and organizations, specifically funding for this program, because my understanding is that the agreement specifies that only $50,000 annually can be paid to the employees of the resource centres that do home visits. Whereas folks doing the same thing in the department, I believe, are getting around $65,000.

 

And so, they are losing - they build relationships with those children and those families, but because the pay is on the lower end, unfortunately, they end up losing the people who built those relationships with the families. A lot of times, actually, lose them to the department. So, my question is: Is there a stipulation about how much is paid to the staff who carry out those home visits? We'll start there.

 

HON. SCOTT ARMSTRONG: We'll have to look into the actual service agreement. I'm not even sure if we can table that because it's a private agreement. We'll take a look into that. But I will say, the Fairview Resource Centre is funded annually to the tune of $230,486. That's the annual funding they get. The Parenting Journey program is $3,760,000 annually, and each program is funded to the tune of $80,000. That was increased in 2023-24 from $70,000 to $80,000.

 

That's a program that continues to provide good results for us - good supports for children and families. In terms of the differential in what we might pay departmental staff and what they're allowed to pay their staff with that budget, I don't have the contract in front of me, but I'll take a look into it.

 

LINA HAMID: I appreciate that very much. Thank you. We know that when dealing with families that are going through these rough times, and they build a relationship with somebody, particularly somebody they know who is in their community, it really goes a long way to be able to maintain that relationship.

 

My understanding is that the funding for the Parenting Journey program specifically - please, correct me if I'm wrong - hasn't been increased in three years and that there was some chat about an increase, but the increase has not happened, as far as up until this year. I'm wondering: Has there been an increase, and if not, is there at least an ongoing conversation about an increase?

 

[7:00 p.m.]

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Good news: In 2023-2024, the annual funding for the program was increased from $70,000 to $80,000, and that's an annual provincial increase of $470,000, so there has been an increase recently.

 

LINA HAMID: I will be switching gears.

 

For funding for youth centres: I was given a great breakdown of how funding to family research centres goes, but can we get a breakdown - if there is a sort of standard funding for youth centres - what that looks like and when was the last time it was increased?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The member may know, but there are 28 family resource centres in Nova Scotia. We provide a total of $6,515,450 to them annually. Now they have indicated to us that they're experiencing some operational pressures, which is to be expected. Last year, we were able to add one-time additional funding at year-end over the - we've done that over the last couple years, but the last aid-based funding increase was in 2021-2022 when we added $2,000,075 to the overall provincial funding.

 

Look at a budget of $6 million - just over $6.5 million, basically. That was increased by a significant amount - by roughly 33 per cent - two years ago, and we've been able to supplement their aid-based funding with end-of-the-year funding the last couple years. We are not quite there yet; the end of the year is not until March 31^st, so stay tuned.

 

LINA HAMID: Would organizations like the BGCs that are specifically for youth be under that category?

 

THE CHAIR: Order. Quiet in the Chamber. Thank you.

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Good news keeps on coming. Now I know the call of the B and G. Up in Colchester County, we just say boys and girls clubs. Our department funds boys and girls clubs across the province to the tune of $1,870,000, so there is funding in this budget for boys and girls clubs, and that's a total budget. Several of them are getting budgets of around $125,000. There is one at $75,000, and one is $307,000, but altogether it's almost $2 million.

 

LINA HAMID: Does the funding that goes to those organizations - is that program funding or core administrative funding?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: That is core funding.

 

LINA HAMID: Regarding the Pallet shelters, I imagine they are transitional or temporary solutions, so what is the estimated time, on average, that a person is expected to live in the Pallet shelter before they are able to transition into permanent housing?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I'm going to digress a bit because I think people watching at home will have difficulty understanding the transitional support, so I'm going to talk about it all.

 

Some people are unsheltered, which means they don't have a place to stay, and we have service providers throughout the province who go out and try to connect them with appropriate housing at different stages and different levels. The first would be shelters and emergency shelters, which we have throughout the province. In HRM of course, we just announced the St. Patrick's church shelter last week, and that is where you would go if you were currently unsheltered. On a real cold night you could go in. There are spots to keep you overnight. That would almost be on a night-to-night basis; but some people may stay there multiple nights.

 

What the member is asking about is what we call transitional housing. We call them shelter villages. I talked about that with the last member - the Leader of the Liberal Party. I visited Ron Cooper Shelter Village on Atlantic Street; it's for seniors. These shelter villages provide pods for one person at a time, and they stay there. The goal is, while they're there, we're able to provide other supports and wraparound services to connect them to what we call permanent housing, where they are located in an apartment or they have supports like that, or there is another stage you can go to called supportive housing.

 

In supportive housing you would pay up to 30 per cent of your salary or whatever income you have coming in, and the rest is subsidized by our department. You would stay in supportive housing. The one that jumps to my mind is called the Rose, and that's here in Halifax. AHANS is the service provider that supports that - a tremendous service provider with great leadership. The Rose supports 18 families. When I was there, they took over a building that was owned by what they call APSEA, which is the Atlantic Provinces Special Education Authority there. They provide services to people - to children in schools who have disabilities. They no longer use that facility, but it's fantastic. There are apartments in that facility for single parents with children. There are apartments with up to six beds for larger families. That allowed us to move several children who had been housed in hotels into that supportive housing. It was tremendous.

 

When you watch the people who are in there who were in hotels - there was one lady who moved into the Rose who - she had lived in a hotel for 14 months. While she was in the hotel, she had a baby. She had to take the baby out of the hospital and home to a hotel room. There was no kitchen. There was no real space to support a child - a baby. Now she's living at the Rose, and there's a kitchen, a bedroom, a bassinette - all the things you could ever use. It's already furnished - and what an opportunity to provide supports.

 

In the Rose, there are gym facilities. There's a gym that was there. There's a playground outside. What a find it was for the Department of Public Works. I give credit to the Minister of Public Works and his staff for finding this and to our public servants who were able to transform this location, with the support of Public Works, into one of the most supportive places we've seen.

 

The next step after supportive housing is permanent housing. It's an apartment. It's a house. It's home ownership.

 

We've now got the continuum of shelters, emergency shelters into transitional houses like shelter villages, like the member was asking about, into supportive housing, and then following through into permanent housing. That's the goal. We have the whole continuum. We've invested a lot of money, as you know and as we've been talking about all night long, to provide this continuum, which supports Nova Scotians no matter what stage they're at.

 

Now, it's not enough. We're working hard to try to meet all the needs of Nova Scotians, so if you're outside, unhoused, and in crisis, we have emergency shelters and shelters. We have enough space now for everybody who's outside, but the goal is to move you through this continuum as quickly as possible so, as quickly as possible, you can get into permanent housing and leave the need to be supported by the government, and you can establish yourself in a home with a good job and the ability to support your family.

 

LINA HAMID: Talking a bit about the folks who are living in hotels or living in other types of - I guess it's referred to as emergency housing or emergency shelter. That's something that - I worked as a housing support worker. I've seen that quite a bit.

 

I wanted to bring something to the minister's attention. I don't think a lot of people, unless they've seen it and they've worked specifically with refugee claimants, are aware of this - or other folks who are not permanent residents or Canadian citizens. To give an example - and maybe this isn't something I expect an answer about but something I did want to bring to the attention of the minister. I recognize that this is also linked with another department because it's with the Department of Growth and Development, but I want to put it out there. For the Canada-Nova Scotia Targeted Housing Benefit, we've seen folks who are not permanent residents or Canadian citizens be denied for that, even though the guidelines online do not specify that they have to be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident. Refugee claimants have been denied for that, but at the same time, they are probably - thousands of dollars going per individual to keep them housed in a hotel at the same time.

 

It's something to explore potentially: how we could expand access to the housing benefit for folks who are not permanent residents or Canadian citizens, to not have to pay thousands of dollars to house them in a hotel that doesn't have the amenities people need in an apartment that could be subsidized by the rent supplement.

 

Again, this is something specific to the group of people I worked with for many years, so I don't think a lot of people are aware of it because it involves the two departments. It's something I wanted to bring to the minister's attention. I don't expect an answer, but the minister is welcome to stand up, if he'd like.

 

[7:15 p.m.]

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I think the member realizes it's not in our department. It's probably in the Department of Growth and Development, but I do see some strategy behind her question - that it might be something we take a look at. We want to make sure everybody has a safe place to stay and live in Nova Scotia. Whether it's OSD, The Department of Growth and Development, or immigration services, I'm sure we would look at supporting all families.

 

While she's asked that question, I would like to say a shout-out to one family. As you know, Syria suffered a serious civil war the last few years, especially three or four years ago. We saw a huge influx of Syrian refugees to Nova Scotia. Nova Scotians are great. Nova Scotians reach out and support people all around the world, and that's not for Nova Scotia. That's something I'm proud of - my province - and I'm proud of our country for supporting refugees from war-torn areas.

 

Where I am is very rural. I was a principal of a rural high school. We had a family come with five children - one is special needs; one is a set of twins. They were Grade 4 to Grade 8, and they're still in both the elementary and high school there. They were working on a farm in that area. The parents were working on a farm, and the children were coming to our school. Some of the children had very good language skills; the others did not. We didn't have great English support - second language support services - because of where we are, and we didn't have need for it before, so we were able to get those supports in there.

 

I could not communicate with the parents - they did not speak English - but I could communicate with one of the students, so we had to use her to communicate any issues the school was having with that family in terms of reporting report cards, status updates. Anything like that had to go through one of the students.

 

Two weeks ago, their house burned to the ground, and the community has rallied around that family. The high school has raised a lot of money. One of the children is living with a friend and staying in high school because he doesn't want to lose his courses. The eldest girl has had to move down with the family to Halifax until the insurance company is able to support them in rebuilding the house. To them, I want to say that our community is stepping up for you, we're behind you, and we'll support you.

 

It shows the struggle of people who immigrate to Canada, particularly from war-torn countries. It rang true to my family. My mother-in-law is from the Netherlands, and she's had two houses burn down during her life as an immigrant to this country. The connection there was strong for me, and I want to say that our government will support families coming from other countries, in terms of being refugees and other immigrants. The programs are also there for them, and we'll work to support all the families in Nova Scotia.

 

LINA HAMID: When doing a homelessness count as a Province, are folks staying in shelters counted in that count, and additionally - sorry. I'll ask that first: Are folks who are in shelters counted in the homelessness count?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Yes, they are.

 

LINA HAMID: For folks who are waiting for transitional or supportive housing, is there a wait-list specific to that, or are folks being taken off the By Name List? How does that work when new types of housing are opened? How are people selected?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The member would remember that, in the first session we had, I talked about how our service providers and our social workers use HIFIS. That provides us an opportunity to use that to do the case work, and they use that program to try to identify people who would move into that housing. That's how we keep track - using that program.

 

There's a structured way to do that, and the service providers are reaching out to people who are unconnected to housing, whether they're unhoused in shelters or about to lose their house, and they've reached out to them. They try to match the right people with the right structure of housing, hopefully close to where they live.

 

If you lived in one area of Halifax and your children were already going to a school, then something came open at the other end of Halifax, that might not be the perfect fit because they may not want to move the students out of that school. It's on a case-by-case basis.

 

We have great service providers and great staff in our department who work using that program to match the right people with the right housing in the area where they want to live.

 

LINA HAMID: A recent press release, and I believe something the minister did mention previously, if I remember correctly - that the department is working on creating 1,085 supportive housing units by 2027-2028. How was that number - how did the department come to that number, and how many of them have been delivered to date?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: In 2022, we presented - I was not the minister, this was done by previous ministers - the supportive housing action plan. Using that 2022 data, there was an assessment done with projections of how many we would need. They used that data to project forward. To let people know, the budget for supportive housing in 2021-2022 was $9,342,000. Today it's $130,529,000. That's an amazing growth - almost 1,300 per cent growth. So far, we've added 700 units, and that will continue up to the number - I think it's 1,085 - the member mentioned before.

 

To give you some idea of some of the results of that, the Bridge that we talked about before - and we talked a lot about it before - is a transitional shelter that supported 4,882 health clinic visits between December 2023 and December 2024. That reduced emergency department walk-in visits and in-patient hospital admissions. Again, I'm going to go back to that. It saves us money because it takes pressure off the hospital. That was one of the results of that investment. There have been six shelter villages which are operational across the province providing accommodation for 200 Nova Scotians.

 

The tiny home community in Lower Sackville provides up to 70 individuals experiencing homelessness with safe, affordable housing with those wraparound services which are key in moving them to the next stage of housing. As of January 2025 - so that's last month, or two months ago now - there were 557 emergency shelter beds across the province and almost 200 of those beds established since 2022. In the HRM, we have enough shelter space right now to house anyone who's currently outside. We encourage anyone who's living outside or living rough - our service providers are going to reach out. Our department is there with the housing and the opportunity for you to move inside. It's safe to be inside. These shelters are safe. We can't force people to go in them, but on a cold night in Halifax today, we have enough space for every single person living rough to go in a safe, sheltered environment, and we encourage them all to take us up on that.

 

LINA HAMID: Is the minister able to tell me how many families are currently living in hotels, Airbnbs, or other types of short-term housing funded by the department?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: I don't have the numbers at our fingertips. We'll get them for you. We do have it. Facilities like the Rose, which we're funding - there are 80 units in there, or 80 people who are going to be in there who were currently out of hotels that weren't hotels, and a large number of them are children.

 

One of the things I asked, when I visited the Rose, was if there was wi-fi in there because, despite the hotel room not being suitable to raise a family, trying to move a child - and I know this as a principal - out of an area that had wi-fi into one that doesn't wouldn't go over too well. They'd probably stay in the hotel room, so we're working to provide wi-fi and other services they would have had in the hotel. We have facilities that are designed so we can move people currently living in hotels, which I don't think is suitable for a family, into these facilities. We're working on that, there's a strategy for that, and there's investment going toward that, but we will get you the number of exactly how many people are living in hotels. We'll be able to get that to you by tomorrow.

 

LINA HAMID: I'd like to go into food insecurity for a bit. More than 23,000 people each month, based on Feed Nova Scotia, currently access food support via food banks or other food programs across Nova Scotia. That number is 52 per cent more than in 2022. My question is: What steps are being taken specifically for food insecurity to support Nova Scotians who are struggling with that?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: You know the theme of our government is more, faster. I promised to have that number tomorrow. More, faster: I've got it right now. For the last question, it's 212 individuals currently living in hotels. I want to thank the crack staff at OSD for being able to provide me that number - more, faster.

 

In terms of food insecurity, since May 2021, OSD has invested over $24 million to various organizations to address food insecurity. As of January 30, 2025, over two million lunches had been provided to elementary students in schools, and that's going to be expanding. As recently as December, we added $1.5 million to Feed Nova Scotia. Feed Nova Scotia, for people who may not know, is an umbrella organization that supports many different organizations across the province. That's a large investment, but under the current circumstances, it's never enough. We need to make sure we have food provided for every hungry person in Nova Scotia.

 

These people who operate these operations across the province, funded by Feed Nova Scotia and the collaborative food networks, are doing amazing work. We need to increase that funding and continue to increase that funding. We're working on that, but part of the government's strategy to create more jobs - good-paying jobs - that's going to ease things off in terms of food insecurity because with a good-paying job you'll be able to afford to feed your family.

 

[7:30 p.m.]

 

The best social programs, as I said in the first part of this meeting we're having here today - these Estimates - the best social program is a good-paying, permanent job.

 

LINA HAMID: Again, for food insecurity: Are there avenues outside of funding Feed Nova Scotia and food banks to help support families with food insecurities - something outside of that to more offset the cost of being able to buy groceries as a family?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: One of the service providers we fund that do a lot of this work are the family resource centres. For example, the North Grove does cooking lessons. They bring people in, and they teach them how to cook and how to provide nutritious food for their families. There is a lot of work being done through the family resource centres which our department funds. The Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage also has many programs that they fund, led by an incredible minister from Truro-Bible Hill-Millbrook-Salmon River - shout-out to that minister.

 

There are a number of different government departments that all have a little piece of food security. I would like to single out the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development because I know it well. We talked about the lunch program, which is expanding, but they also have SchoolsPlus, and SchoolsPlus provides incredible support for individual students and families who are suffering food insecurity and who are suffering transportation woes. They have budgets of money to be able to support individuals, and part of that would be a family in your building. If you are a principal or a vice-principal, you put them over to SchoolsPlus who will find resources and connect them to getting those supports.

 

There are a number of government departments - it's a collaboration of several of us - that have different roles in providing food security and access to food for families in Nova Scotia.

 

LINA HAMID: I have a specific question, and it could be tabled if it's not readily available, but I'm wondering: For the school lunches, are there halal, kosher, or vegetarian options available for that - for the lunch programs?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: It's a better question probably for the Minister of Education - Advanced Education or whatever. From my experience as a principal, I do know a bit about the program, so I will talk a bit about it, but it may not be exactly right.

 

The menu that parents can choose from is online. The great thing about it being online is that parents can pay as much as they want, but no one will ever know who is paying and who isn't. It's blind; you can't see. I know there were concerns, when we first talked about this, from the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development that students will be singled out as they're getting free food. That's not the way it works. Parents go online, it's blind, and they can pay as much as they want. If they're wealthy and think they should be contributing, they can, but they don't have to. Anybody can order the food.

 

There are various menus that students can choose from. I have two grandsons - one's 5 and one's 7 - and I did get a call one day when the program first started from my 5-year-old grandson who was in Primary. He didn't like the lunch that day, and he wanted to ask his MLA why, so I was getting attacked from my own home.

 

There are three different service delivery models. Some schools will have a kitchen and a cafeteria that can create the food in the school. Some are going to have to move the food in from maybe a local high school or even a service provider. There are start-up issues - the food's cold. They have to work those bugs out, but on the whole, you've seen that that's been a successful implementation of a program.

 

In January, they eclipsed over two million meals served, and you'll see that was the hardest implementation because we all know feeding elementary students is more difficult than feeding a junior high or a high school student. You'll see the rest of the implementation go pretty seamlessly. I can't talk too much; there are various menus. That is something they're still tinkering with, and the menus are changing. They do follow pretty strict nutrition standards because we want students to have healthy, delicious meals. I'm not saying it's perfect yet. It's only been implemented for a while, but it's off to a great start.

 

LINA HAMID: We touched on child poverty previously. With food insecurity, that does hit children harder than anybody else. They're growing. In 2022, 40.1 per cent of Nova Scotian children - the highest in Canada - were living in food insecure households. That's 71,000 Nova Scotian children who are living in food insecure households. The lunch program is great during the school year, but then outside of the school year, whether it's the holidays or the Summertime, they don't have access to that. Aside from the school lunches, are there any direct investments in this budget to improve children's access to food?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: Again, the member is right; there are two out of five children in Nova Scotia who are food insecure, so roughly 40 per cent. There are several departments that are engaged in trying to support families in terms of providing them food. We talked about the new Nova Scotia School Lunch Program already, so I'm going to skip over that. The budget for that is increasing significantly for this year as they're expanding that service.

 

The Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage has a Community Food Access and Literacy Fund, which is called CFAL. It funds the programs, improves access to healthy food, and builds food literacy, including meal planning, budgeting, and community garden programs. It funds them up to $5,000. There's $100,000 in CFAL funding distributed for 2024-2025.

 

Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage also supports the Farmers' Markets of Nova Scotia and the Nourishing Communities Food Coupon Program with $422,400 in funding from the Local Food Security Initiatives program. The Local Food Security Initiatives program also provides funding for other community groups on an application basis. It funds initiatives like meal distribution, food pantries, drop-in lunch programs, and other community meal programs.

 

The Department of Health and Wellness provides the following operational funding related to food insecurity: $200,000 to the Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage for the Community Food Access and Literacy Fund grants; and $275,000 to the Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage for the Nourish Nova Scotia grant.

 

We all want to make sure we buy local. We've heard a lot of talk about that with the Trump tariffs in place. What better place to look at than the Department of Agriculture, using our own agriculture to help combat food insecurity. The Department of Agriculture has multiple initiatives and grants for agriculture awareness, climate change, and improving production and access to local food. While most of these are not focused on food insecurity, they have some elements that can affect food insecurity. Examples include Agriculture in the Classroom, which helps students learn where food comes from, the importance of agriculture in Nova Scotia, and supporting local careers in agriculture food sectors.

 

Fresh food carts is a pilot supporting farmers and providing access to local food in schools. The Nova Scotia Department of Agriculture launched this pilot in collaboration with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development and Nova Scotia Public Health. Five schools were supported.

 

As you can see, the Department of Agriculture, CCTH, the Department of Health and Wellness, and our department fund this. Also, through the Department of Agriculture, we have the Nova Scotia School Milk Program, which has been in existence for generations. We have multiple departments, all supporting families who are suffering from food insecurity.

 

You're right, though; when students go home for the Summer, they go home for Christmas, or they go home for March Break - next week - that food is not available. However, there are many schools - SchoolsPlus workers, probably at the centre of this - that do send food home with families before Christmas, before March Break, and before Easter. They know which students in their schools are suffering from food insecurity. There is a lot of work done to send food home so those children will have good, nutritious meals when they get there.

 

LINA HAMID: I'd like to tie a couple of the points that we've talked about together. With food insecurity and trying to promote local, it's quite hard for a lot of families - a lot of households - to be able to afford to buy local, and then even more so if they're on income assistance. Is there - not really a question - but how do we make those two things fit? I guess that's my question.

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: That is the question, isn't it? Even though you said it wasn't a question, it is a question. How do we roll all these programs together to meet the needs of every Nova Scotian who is struggling with food security, making ends meet, paying their rent, and being able to provide activities for their children? When you look at all the programs, and this - I love being minister of this department. The thing I love most about it is the work that's being done by the public servants in here.

 

I've had a lot of experience in politics at the federal level, but when I walk into the Department of Opportunities and Social Development, the effort and the dedication of this staff is something like I've never seen before. They are truly there - I can promise you this - to make lives better for Nova Scotians, particularly families who are struggling. The programs they have designed and are delivering are coming from the heart. I believe that.

 

I've talked about probably 50 programs or more today - if you go back and look at the tapes - and it all has to mesh together. I'm not saying there are no gaps still because I think there are. One of my challenges as a leader in this department now is to close those gaps. One of those challenges we all have to work at in this House is closing the gaps between departments and making sure we support all Nova Scotians.

 

From my experience in government, those gaps are closing, but one of the problems we face is increasing challenges with the tariffs, and there are other economic challenges we're facing now. We can work as hard as we want, and we can close as many gaps as we want, but we have to build the economy in this province because no one social program is going to fix the problems we're about to face.

 

[7:45 p.m.]

 

Fixing our economy and growing our economy is the answer because when you grow the economy, you have the finances - you have the financial resources - to close those gaps.

 

This why we're seeing the Premier take on this challenge personally. He realizes, in looking at what we're facing in terms of what is happening internationally to our south, which may have a devastating effect on our economy - maybe less in Nova Scotia than some other provinces; we don't share a border with the United States, but we are dependent on them - that we have to diversify our economy. We need other partners to trade with. We can no longer sit back and rely on the way it always was.

 

Our government's going to be taking some bold steps, and we're not saying it's going to be perfect. We're not saying everybody will support it, but I want everyone to know we're taking these steps because we know, in order to provide the resources, social programs, supports for children, and supports for families who struggle we need, we first have to build a robust, strong, diversified economy so we can deliver the social programs needed to make our province the best province in Canada, which I believe it is.

 

We're asking the Opposition, when they have an opportunity to support this budget, which won't be too far away - I ask them to please support it. Get on board because this budget will help us deliver the programs we need to support our families for many future years to come. It's a turning point budget in Nova Scotia history.

 

I credit the Premier, the Minister of Finance and Treasury Board, and the other cabinet ministers who put this together. It's going to help our department and other departments deliver the resources needed so our children and our children's children can experience a great, safe place to live. They'll be able to feed their families, and they'll be able to get a good-paying job right here in Nova Scotia.

 

LINA HAMID: Directly to that point, we know families are struggling, a lot of Nova Scotians are still struggling, so I would like to go back to the 2024 Report Card on Child and Family Poverty in Nova Scotia. I could table that, as well. There were some recommendations made there about being able to lift families out of poverty. Specifically, there is one about removing punitive conditions and allowing income assistance recipients to keep more earnings before our clawbacks.

 

Something like that would be, for example, if somebody on income assistance needed to get a new pair of shoes maybe, and somebody wanted to help them get that new pair of shoes, or they wanted to get something to prepare for an interview - or anything that is outside of what they could afford - and somebody is able to help them with that because as Nova Scotians we help each other a lot. If somebody was trying to help someone with income assistance by giving them money to buy such things that they need, that money would be clawed back from their income assistance. Is there any - is the department considering removing the punitive conditions? If so, is there a timeline on when those changes could be delivered?

 

SCOTT ARMSTRONG: The program is called Employment Support and Income Assistance. Part of the employment support of that program allows people to go out, get a job, get some income on the job, and still maintain some or more of their income assistance, depending on how much money they get. It would be silly to claw it all back. Why would they have incentive to go out and get employment? We have programs that take that into account, but they're going to lose some of it.

 

We have the Path Program for students who are leaving care and going to work. That provides them support up to the age of 26. We are providing programs for school supplies and other things like that. We're providing supports - if you need steel toe trucker boots to go to work, if you need a hard hat, or if you need other supplies to get that employment.

 

Employment Support and Income Assistance is a bridge to employment not just money coming in. We do have some programs like what you're talking about. We have programs that support people. What we're trying to do, and one of the reasons the department is called Opportunities and Social Development, is to make sure people know they have the opportunities. We're providing the opportunities not disincentives to go to work.

 

There are a lot of programs in place that have had changes to them somewhat recently to make employment more attractive without providing the disincentive to go to work but still maintaining the funding you need to be able to support your family.

 

You're right; we've got programs that are doing that. We can always do more. If the member has suggestions for particular programs we could take a look at, as the critic, I'm more than willing to meet with her and put those in place.

 

What we need is to make sure - right now, there are 36,000 people collecting income assistance in Nova Scotia. There are probably roughly 16,000 or 17,000 of those people who are disabled to the point where they probably could never work. Think of someone who is severely autistic. There are still about 20,000 who, under the right circumstances, in the right job, and with the right training and the right supports, could work and get the satisfaction of getting a paycheque, going out to work every day, and moving themselves or their family off income assistance.

 

We're looking for ideas that support that. In the next seven years, Canada needs about 350,000 truck drivers. That's how many truck drivers are going to retire in Canada. There are a lot of people currently on income assistance who - I'm using that as one example - if we provided them the right training and the right supports, could do that job. There are lots of jobs like that, particularly in the skilled trades.

 

We need programs, and we're looking for them, to bridge people to employment, getting them off income assistance. The more people - of that 20,000 or so - we can get off income assistance, the more we can look at expanding services for the ones who remain there or the ones who probably could never engage in work because of disabilities and other issues. If you have good ideas, I'm more than open to looking at them.

 

THE CHAIR: With under two minutes remaining, the honourable member for Fairview-Clayton Park.

 

LINA HAMID: The Minister's last answer excites me very much because I've got lots of ideas. I want to end it on a note of - I see the amazing work and the amazing programs that come out of that department. I've seen first-hand how programs are able to support folks.

 

Being so intimately familiar with it, I also know quite a bit about where some of the gaps are. They might not be obvious right away to somebody glancing at it or reviewing it. I've had the opportunity to work closely with people in navigating a lot of those systems, and I genuinely look forward to further talking about that.

 

Folks on income assistance, at least from what I've seen from the folks I've supported, don't want to be on income assistance. They want to be able to get off income assistance. They want to be able to work. They want to be able to support themselves and not have to live in unsecure situations. There's definitely a lot of opportunity for us to see how we can address that. I look forward to more conversations with the minister.

 

THE CHAIR: Order. The time for questioning for the NDP has come to an end. The committee has about 45 seconds remaining - 30 seconds. With unanimous consent, I would let time lapse.

 

All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.

 

The motion is carried.

 

The honourable Government Deputy House Leader.

 

MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: Chair, I move that the committee do now rise and report progress to the House and beg leave to sit again on a future date.

 

THE CHAIR: All those in favour? Contrary minded? Thank you.

 

The motion is carried.

 

The Committee will now rise and report to the House. We will recess until the subcommittee is ready.

 

[The committee adjourned at 7:56 p.m.]