HALIFAX, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2025

 

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE ON SUPPLY

 

3:45 P.M.

 

CHAIR

Tom Taggart

 

 

THE CHAIR: Order. The Committee of the Whole House on Supply will come to order. It is now 3:45:36 p.m. The committee must rise and report to the House before the hour of adjournment, which today is 10:00 p.m.

 

The honourable Government House Leader.

 

HON. BRENDAN MAGUIRE: Would you please call Estimates for the Minister of Public Works, Resolution E38.

 

Resolution E38 - Resolved that a sum not exceeding $840,141,000 be granted to the Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Public Works, pursuant to the Estimate.

 

I now invite the Minister of Public Works to make opening comments for up to an hour and to introduce his staff to the committee.

 

The honourable Minister of Public Works.

 

HON. FRED TILLEY: Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about the work we do on behalf of Nova Scotians, the Department of Public Works. It's a privilege to serve as both Minister of Public Works and as a member of the Legislature for Northside-Westmount.

 

Before coming to the department late last year, I watched from my constituency, and I want to tell you a little bit about what I saw. I was very impressed with the work of this department. I am an MLA who drives a lot. I travel regularly from Cape Breton to Halifax. I travel four-lane highways and I also travel some gravel roads.

 

What I've seen since this government was elected in 2021 is significant change. Our roads have greatly improved. You just need to drive Highway No. 104 once, between New Glasgow and Antigonish, to realize that. Maybe your commute is better now because of the Sackville-Bedford-Burnside Connector. Maybe secondary roads are your route. In that case you've seen first-hand the difference that doubling the gravel roads program has made.

 

These are excellent examples of how our government is improving travel and transportation for Nova Scotians. I am proud of the work of this department. I do know there is more work to do and I'm looking forward to getting the job done. We need to ease congestion, make sure our major projects continue to drive our economy forward, to create a brighter future for Nova Scotia.

 

As minister, I'm fortunate that I get to work with so many extremely talented and dedicated people, people who put their heads down and work in all kinds of conditions for Nova Scotians. The work we are doing together will have lasting effects on the lives of Nova Scotians for generations to come.

 

Next to me today I have two great people from the Department of Public Works that I'm fortunate enough to work with - Mr. Paul LaFleche, executive deputy minister; and Peter Geddes, associate deputy minister; and soon we'll be joined by Brent Pero, executive director, Financial Advisory Services.

 

In the gallery and out in TV land there are more Department of Public Works, Build Nova Scotia, and Joint Regional Transportation Agency staff who I have the pleasure of working with as minister. I really want to take this opportunity to thank all the staff for everything they've done for me since becoming minister.

 

The Department of Public Works has many important jobs. We are probably best known for building and maintaining provincial highways, roads, and bridges. We also build and maintain government buildings, courthouses, museums, and operate seven ferries in the province. Our Crown corporations include Build Nova Scotia, the Joint Regional Transportation Agency - which is evolving into Link Nova Scotia - Halifax Harbour Bridges, and the Highway 104 Western Alignment Corporation. Plus, we're involved in active and community transportation, dams, aboiteaux, road safety, vehicle registry and much, much more.

 

It's a big challenge. It's an exciting role. It's full of opportunities and, of course, challenges.

 

I want to talk a little bit about the economic impact of our work. The Department of Public Works is deeply connected to our priority of creating a brighter future for Nova Scotia. Our work represents thousands of good-paying jobs and billions of dollars of investment in our economy. We are connecting communities and making travel safer and more efficient for Nova Scotians. We're making families stronger. The careers that come from this work pay for homes and put food on the table.

 

We're also connecting Nova Scotia businesses to more opportunities and growth. The projects that we are developing and completing improve important trade routes and make the movement of goods more efficient.

 

That means that we sell more of what Nova Scotians make. That creates a stronger economy and a more prosperous province. We're going to unlock Nova Scotia's full potential.

 

We know that that means we have to do things differently. Transportation is no exception to that. We have started by beginning the transformation of the JRTA into the new province-wide Link Nova Scotia. We're also leading the way by looking at light rail options and ways to ease congestion on Highway No. 102.

 

No pun intended, but I am excited about the road ahead of us, and I am confident that we'll get the job done.

 

Now, since this is Estimates, I want to talk a little bit about the budget. Our government released Budget 2025-26 on Tuesday, February 18^th. It reaffirms our commitment to moving our province forward and builds on the important work that we have already started.

 

Budget 2025-26: Unlocking Our Potential, strengthens our economic resilience, makes life more affordable, and invests in safe and healthy communities. We will continue to move Nova Scotia forward. We are building on progress that has already been made and delivering on promises to lower taxes, hire more doctors, increase wages, and strengthen our economy. This is how we will unlock Nova Scotia's full potential. As we know, Nova Scotians are feeling the pressures of higher costs of living. We're listening and helping improve affordability for all Nova Scotians. As a government, we can see the potential our province has, and our job is to help unlock it.

 

As part of the budget, I want to talk a little bit about the health care infrastructure. As has been our commitment from Day 1, we continue to implement a comprehensive plan to get Nova Scotians better health care services. I see the progress that we are making every single day. My colleague, the Minister of Health and Wellness, is leading that charge. She is overseeing modern, high-quality health care infrastructure projects that will give all Nova Scotians what they need and what they deserve.

 

The announcement last week that the Halifax Infirmary project is moving into the next phase of construction is exciting news for all Nova Scotians. These projects will improve access to services and support the retention and recruitment of health care professionals. The Department of Public Works also has several health care infrastructure projects on the go across our province. From building new, innovative health care facilities, to renovating existing spaces to better serve Nova Scotians, we are hard at work improving health care in our province.

 

A great example of that is the Yarmouth Regional Hospital Emergency Department project has completed the early works package, schematic design, and draft developmental design report. We also just completed the tender process and construction will begin this year. The new emergency department includes doubling the size of that emergency department and upgrading the emergency power supply for the entire facility. Currently the facility can care for 14 people at a time and handle two ambulances. The expanded emergency department will be able to care for 30 people and handle up to four ambulances.

 

The North Cumberland Health Care Centre has been completed and is now providing care to Nova Scotians in the Pugwash area. This new state-of-the-art health care facility delivers improved, more efficient, and coordinated care. All the services provided at the North Cumberland Memorial Hospital and the North Cumberland Primary Healthcare Clinic are now under one roof. That includes primary care by doctors and nurse practitioners, urgent and outpatient care such as X-rays, diagnostics, rehabilitation, and mental health services, and also in-patient care for patients under observation staying for short periods and receiving palliative care.

 

The $7.2 million renovation of existing space to construct the new Dartmouth General Hospital MRI suite is also now completed.

 

The South Shore Regional Hospital project is moving along well. We have approved $146.7 million for this project. The first phase which includes an expanded emergency department, endoscopy, dialysis unit, and MRI is scheduled to be complete in early 2026. Phase II is scheduled to open in the Fall of 2027. It will include day surgery. There are two portions of the work still to be assigned.

 

[4:00 p.m.]

 

Another project, the IWK Health Centre Emergency Department redevelopment, is well into construction. Demolition, concrete placement, and structural steel installation are complete. Concrete placement and structural steel installation are ongoing for the new building. The building envelope is nearing weathertight completion, and $161.7 million has been approved for this project.

 

This project includes three triage rooms, 24 examination rooms, two trauma and resuscitation rooms, four mental health and addictions care rooms, a mental health day room, and a low acuity treatment space. In addition, a CT scanner will be in close proximity. It will also include a double ambulance bay. Construction began on the new IWK Health Centre Emergency Department in 2022 and is expected to be finished in late 2026.

 

We are also making progress on the Cumberland Regional Health Care Centre. This project includes an emergency department and a 12-station renal dialysis unit. A contract has been awarded, and tendering is expected to schedule to start in Spring 2025.

 

Our government is committed to fixing health care. A big part of that is updating and building new infrastructure to allow providers to give better service and to help accommodate our continuously growing population.

 

I know the Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development will love this part, but this is all about schools. Our growing population also requires us to build the modern and accessible schools that Nova Scotians deserve. We assist the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development through site selection, design, and construction of these new schools. Currently we have 19 schools in the site selection, design, or construction phase. That's amazing.

 

In addition, we are adding modular classrooms to respond to the immediate growth needs. This provides safe, comfortable classroom space for our students and teachers. These new learning spaces create good jobs now, while supporting the well-being and success of the next generation of Nova Scotians.

 

Hospitals and schools are only part of the work we do at Public Works. We are about making sure communities have the infrastructure they need to thrive. A big part of that is making sure they are connected by efficient, safe roads and highways. We are about helping to make sure Nova Scotians can travel to work, travel to school, and get home at the end of the day to see their families. We are about making it possible for us and visitors to travel from one end of the province to the other, exploring the beauty that Nova Scotia has to offer. We are about making sure grandparents can drive to see the smiles of their grandchildren.

 

Quality, safe roads are something that many of us take for granted, but none of the things I've mentioned would be possible without them. It's thanks to the more than 2,000 hard-working staff at the Department of Public Works that much of this is possible.

 

In Nova Scotia we have 23,000 kilometres of provincially owned roads and highways. There are 4,100 provincially owned bridges across this province. Maintaining that many kilometres of roads and bridges is no easy task. It takes an army. It takes working collaboratively with our private sector and government partners and stakeholders to address Nova Scotia's transportation and infrastructure needs.

 

To do this, the Department of Public Works has employees stationed throughout the province. We have four districts: Western, Northern, Central and Eastern. Within these districts there are multiple bases and depots where staff are stationed. These employees play a massive role in maintaining our roads and keeping them safe. From road maintenance to snow removal, these folks do it all.

 

I'd like to take some time to thank them for their hard work by highlighting some of the programs and activities that they deliver. First of all, an activity that we're all familiar with right now, because it is February: storm preparation and response. We know from the past few years that our province has seen some unprecedented events. We have seen devasting wildfires, enormous snowfalls, and tragically, we have experienced deadly rain events.

 

As part of our responsibility to provide safe, quality roads and highways for Nova Scotians, we need to make sure that we can respond to increasingly frequent weather events. Our goal is always to get our roads, highways, bridges, and other critical infrastructure open as fast as possible. To do this requires preparation. We always prepare when we know a storm is coming, so we can act quickly to repair any damage. This includes stockpiling resources and making sure our people and equipment are ready and in position.

 

Another key component of preparing to respond to a severe weather event is coordination. The Department of Public Works has formed a storm preparedness committee that meets before forecasted major weather events. We're working in coordination with the new Department of Emergency Management and other key stakeholders. This creates a cohesive and proactive approach to preparation for the increased storm activity we are experiencing here in Nova Scotia. It assures alignment on how we prepare and coordinate efforts more effectively during a storm. As minister, I'm very proud of this collaboration.

 

With these increasingly frequent severe weather events, we need to ensure that new infrastructure is built to be more resilient. This has changed the way that we build and repair infrastructure. Through our capital plan, we have steadily upgraded and improved infrastructure to be more resilient across the province. The department considers climate change and adaptation when planning and designing bridges, highway upgrading, and new construction projects. All new projects are designed and constructed with climate change readiness in mind.

 

When we make repairs to infrastructure that is damaged by storms, we'll make sure they will be able to stand up to weather.

 

Another key success in responding to storms and damaged infrastructure is making sure we have supplies on hand to make repairs. We are working hard to ensure we have spare culverts and pre-built temporary bridges on hand to react to severe storms and storm surges when they impact our existing infrastructure. We have built relationships with stakeholders we can call upon during our storm response. This includes our neighbouring provinces and members of the Nova Scotia Road Builders Association. We are also working to raise critical roads and bridges that are vulnerable to flooding.

 

A little bit about gravel roads and RIM: Nova Scotia has more than 8,400 kilometres of gravel roads. These roads make up 35 per cent of the provincial road network. Keeping these roads in good, safe condition is essential in rural communities. We know just how important it is, which is why we have consistently increased funding to improve gravel roads across this province. Since forming government in 2021, we have added more than $100 million into the Gravel Road Program. This funding is used to improve existing gravel roads in rural communities across the province. It allows us to proactively rebuild roads to improve the structure and drainage, which results in longer-lasting roads, improved safety, and reduced maintenance costs down the road.

 

Department staff evaluate and prioritize the gravel roads that need the most work. The criteria that they use to evaluate roads includes traffic volume, potholes, loss of gravel, ditches, culverts, overgrown brush, and drainage pipes. A full list of gravel road projects can be found in our Five-Year Highway Improvement Plan. In addition to the work in gravel roads, we have also doubled the funding for our Rural Impact Mitigation Program, affectionately known as RIM in previous years.

 

Again, we know how important our road systems are in our rural communities. That's why the budget for this line item went from $11 million to $22 million. This program supports road maintenance improvements including pavement, gravel, brush cutting, patching, ditching, culvert replacement, guardrail replacement, and shoreline protection. These two programs - the Gravel Road Program and the RIM program - are important for keeping our provincial road network maintained. They help connect rural communities and keep drivers safe.

 

Another important topic and project we are working on is the Chignecto Isthmus. Over the last few years, we have seen more than our fair share of tropical storms and hurricanes. Climate change is something that we are all concerned about and something that we take seriously. We have heard concerns about the Chignecto Isthmus as sea levels rise. We have heard those concerns, and we share them.

 

[4:15 p.m.]

 

The Chignecto Isthmus is a critical land transport corridor for people and goods travelling between Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, and the rest of Canada. It also has the only railway between Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. Believe it or not, it is estimated that $100 million worth of goods pass through the isthmus every single day. A network of dikes and aboiteaux were built at the isthmus in the late 1600s. They currently protect communities, infrastructure, private lands, and natural resources from rising sea levels. With sea levels continuing to rise and more frequent storms, there is a threat to the corridor and the communities that the dikes protect.

 

The Government of New Brunswick and the Government of Nova Scotia are collaborating to undertake planning work for a dikeland system infrastructure solution for the Chignecto Isthmus. The proposed project will complement and improve the existing dikeland system infrastructure along the Chignecto Isthmus to protect important assets from the impacts of sea-level rise and storm surge in the Bay of Fundy.

 

To complete this project and continue to protect the surrounding communities and the trade corridor, it is estimated to cost $650 million and will take about ten years to complete. We believe that the federal government has a responsibility to protect national trade corridors. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick believe that the federal government is responsible for paying for this important project. We have made our position very clear.

 

We also know that this is a project that just can't wait. We are acting now and preparing to get this job done over the next ten years while we work to get the federal government to live up to its responsibilities. In fact, we have already completed several significant steps. Pre-construction work has started. At the request of Ottawa, we have applied for federal disaster mitigation funding. Unfortunately, we are still waiting for a response. And together with New Brunswick, we have hired a project manager.

 

Our next steps are currently under way, and these steps include collecting baseline environmental data, identifying wetlands, fish habitats, and species at risk, and contingency planning, including building a protective berm near the LaPlanche River. While I am proud of the progress we have made, I can't forget that every dollar that Nova Scotians spend on a federal responsibility is a dollar that we can't spend on health care, housing, or making life more affordable for Nova Scotians.

 

The budget and the five-year plan - we have a lot going on at the Department of Public Works. We are a big department with many projects on the go at any given point. Our overall operating budget for 2025-26 is $840 million. The operating portion of our budget is used for the day-to-day operations of the department, such as snow and ice control, highway and bridge maintenance, field operations, fleet amortization, ferry operations, building operations and maintenance, environmental services, real estate services, vehicle compliance, engineering and construction services, administration, professional services, employee benefits, road improvement maintenance work, and smaller highway and building projects.

 

Since forming government in 2021, we have invested $180 million more in asphalt for trunks, routes, and local roads. A few weeks ago, we released our Five-Year Highway Improvement Plan 2025-26. This plan outlines the government's approach to building, repairing, and maintaining the province's 23,000 kilometers of roads and highways and its 4,100 bridges over the next five years. It includes major highway projects, repaving, major bridge replacements, capital maintenance, and infrastructure work.

 

Sharing the specific plans early for road improvement in the Five-Year Highway Improvement Plan gives the province's road building sector a better opportunity to prepare. This year, we expect to work on more than 150 highway improvement projects. We need them ready.

 

Sharing the plan early also keeps Nova Scotians informed about the important road and bridge improvements being made in their communities. This year, I'm pleased to say we are continuing to make significant investments in our province's transportation infrastructure, with around $500 million being invested in roadwork and major projects.

 

As I said earlier, this is a significant investment in our people and our businesses. It creates good-paying jobs and drives our economy forward. It is at the heart of unlocking Nova Scotia's full potential. Our investments made through this year's plan will improve more roads and highways across the province. It will make them safer with increased investment in upgrading gravel roads and rehabilitating paved roads.

 

All major projects will continue again this year, in this coming construction season. We have added some new ones, like the Port Hastings rotary and passing lanes on Highway No. 107. Work will continue on major projects, including the Seal Island Bridge rehabilitation, Highway No. 103 Argyle interchange, Highway No. 103 twinning from Hubbards to East River, Highway No. 104 twinning from Taylors Road to Paqtnkek, Highway No. 107 twinning from Burnside to Lake Loon, and the Highway No. 102 Aerotech Connector.

 

Work on infrastructure upgrades for the Tancook Ferry wharves in Lunenburg County will also continue. Even though it's not in the Five-Year Plan, I have to take a moment to speak about the Highway No. 107 Sackville-Bedford-Burnside Connector. We completed this project at the end of 2024, and it's making a real difference in people's lives. I have heard from countless people about how much better their commute is now that it's open. I want to thank everyone who worked on this important project; we couldn't have done it without you. We're also counting on those same individuals to deliver many more projects in the future, so please keep up the great work.

 

Our roads, highways, and bridges create a road network that connects us from one community to the next and creates efficient and safe trade routes. The work we do to maintain and improve these routes will help keep Nova Scotians safe and visitors safe when they're travelling on our roads. It will also make sure we have high-quality transportation infrastructure that allows businesses to move their products around the province and North America, helping foster a strong economy.

 

This work has a major impact on all Nova Scotians. We couldn't do it without the road-building industry. They ensure we have safe, quality, efficient roads to travel on. They help us recover from unprecedented weather events that damage roads and bridges, and they play a significant role in our economy by providing good jobs for Nova Scotians, employing more than 10,000 people directly and indirectly each year.

 

We have 4,100 bridges provincially owned and maintained in Nova Scotia. They are another critical part of our provincial transportation network. They play an important role in connecting our communities, and many Nova Scotians rely on them. Bridges, like all other infrastructure, require maintenance and have a lifespan. Knowing how important bridges are and the need for maintenance and repairs, we doubled funding for the bridge program three years ago.

 

We are continuing this $60 million investment to repair and replace existing structures for Nova Scotians. This will allow a proactive approach to expand the rehabilitation and replacement of existing structures, which will improve safety and reduce maintenance costs in the long run.

 

Our twinning projects - Nova Scotia 100-Series highways are critical to our transportation system. They connect communities from one end of the province to the other, play a key role in business, tourism, and our everyday travel. At the Department of Public Works, safety is always our priority. Twinning our major highways increases safety on the highway. It also helps improve efficiency for commercial and recreational travel. That's why we continue our commitment to our ongoing twinning projects, including Highway No. 101, Highway No. 103, and Highway No. 104.

 

Here's a quick update on some of these projects. Highway No. 101, the 9.5-kilometre twinning project through the Windsor area, from Three Mile Plains at Exit 5 to west of Falmouth at Exit 7, is substantially complete. The section through the causeway remains and would include the construction of the twin bridges and the aboiteau. The DFO approval process for the construction of this infrastructure has been going back and forth with the federal regulator for quite some time now. We analyzed and presented multiple operating scenarios for the aboiteau. They specifically asked us to select one of the options that were provided. Our conversations with the federal government will continue, and hopefully, we'll come to a solution. Pending regulatory approvals and no major change to the detailed design, the department expects the structure will take two to three years to construct.

 

Highway No. 102 Aerotech Connector: work is continuing on the Highway No. 102 Aerotech Connector project. The project includes a new connector road between Trunk 2 and Highway No. 102 at Exit 5A, roundabouts, and two other structures. This project is anticipated to vastly improve traffic flow and reduce congestion in the growing Fall River-Waverley area. Construction is nearing completion, with gravel and asphalt works remaining. We expect the project to open this Summer.

 

The Highway No. 103 project is going to make a significant difference in the area, improving safety and efficiency along the South Shore. Construction to build the new 22-kilometre four-lane divided highway between Exit 5 at Upper Tantallon and Exit 6 at Hubbards is complete. Our work from Exit 6 at Hubbards to Exit 7 at East River continues. This project will see around 9.5 kilometres of highway twinned and the reconfiguration of Exit 7. Tree clearing is under way. Subgrade work is scheduled to be tendered this Summer, with work commencing soon after.

 

After the successful conclusion of the Highway No. 104 twinning project, from Sutherlands River to Antigonish, our attention turned to the next phase. Work to twin Highway No. 104 from Taylors Road to Paqtnkek is well under way. Traffic volumes on this section of the Trans-Canada Highway can see up to 14,000 vehicles per day, of which I'm one, during the busy Summer months. The highway also carries a significant amount of commercial traffic, servicing Cape Breton and Newfoundland. The project will result in the construction of approximately 11 kilometres of new Highway No. 104 twinning and over 12 kilometres of new and upgraded Trunk 4. Construction was completed on one bridge in 2024. Work is ongoing for another two structures and is expected to be completed in 2025. Tree clearing is currently under way, and the first phase of subgrade work, including an interchange bridge, is scheduled to be tendered soon, with construction starting in the Summer.

 

[4:30 p.m.]

 

In our Five-Year Highway Improvement Plan, we have several highway projects we plan to begin within the next five years. They include the Highway No. 103 Argyle interchange. Exits No. 32 and 32A on Highway No. 103 have raised safety concerns for many in the area. The two exits are at grade and intersect with Highway No. 103 in a busy section of the highway. There is also a major driveway off the highway that connects to a long-term seniors' home. This project will improve safety in the area and will include a new diamond interchange at Trunk 3. The reconnection of Trunk 3 through the project area will also be completed, reinstating this section of secondary road that was lost when Highway No. 103 was originally constructed. This project is under way and is expected to be completed in 2028-29.

 

Highway No. 103 twinning/Exit 7: As I mentioned, the work is under way at Exit 6 to Exit 7. The next section of this highway to be twinned is Exit 7 at East River to Exit 8 at Chester. This project, along with our other twinning projects, has traffic volumes that exceed 10,000 vehicles per day, which is a metric we use to support the need for a twinned highway. The work from Exit 7 to Exit 8 will result in the construction of approximately seven kilometres of new twinning and the replacement of the Exit 8 interchange structure. Tree clearing here is also under way.

 

Traffic volumes on the section of Highway No. 107 from Burnside to Lake Loon exceed 15,000 vehicles per day. This section of the highway sees traffic congestion and lineups during peak commuting times. Twinning this section of highway will reduce congestion and improve safety for drivers. It is a continuation of the Highway No. 107 twinning, extending easterly from the Highway No. 118 interchange and expanding upon the Highway No. 107 project currently under construction. Modifications to the Highway No. 107/Highway No. 118 interchange are also required to accommodate the twinning. Subgrade and bridge work is to be tendered in the Spring of 2025, with construction to start in Summer 2025.

 

Highway No. 101/Cambridge interchange: The new Cambridge interchange will have many benefits for the community, starting with improved safety for those travelling between Coldbrook and Berwick. It will also reduce vehicle traffic through the congested Coldbrook area, remove heavy commercial vehicles from residential roads, and provide residential and commercial development opportunities for Annapolis Valley First Nation and the Municipality of the County of Kings. Construction has started on the interchange bridge over Highway No. 101 and subgrade work to the four ramps. Subgrade for the north connector and associated bridgework will be tendered in the Spring of 2025, with work starting soon after.

 

The department also has several projects to improve safety for highways not being twinned. They include improving at-grade intersections and adding passing lanes, climbing lanes, and turning lanes. These are important investments, and will continue to make our roads safer.

 

Our provincial ferries: Another important piece of our transportation network in the province is the seven provincially operated ferries. There are seven provincially run ferries that the Department of Public Works is responsible for operating. They include ferries in LaHave, Country Harbour, Little Narrows, Englishtown, Tancook Island, Petit Passage, and Grand Passage.

 

Through our Five-Year Highway Improvement Plan, we are working on putting in place a new ferry for Tancook Island. The new ferry will allow vehicles to travel between the Tancook Islands and Blandford on the mainland. Work on the wharf infrastructure upgrades for the Tancook ferry is ongoing, and work will continue on the Blandford site. Work will begin this year on the Big Tancook site, which includes upgrading the wharf and road required to support the new car ferry.

 

Our department continues to be responsible for the 1,800 government structures and their associated properties. Buildings include provincial museums, justice centres, and government offices. Our department is responsible for the daily operations and maintenance to ensure a safe, secure, effective, and efficient work environment for the building tenants.

 

Driver's licence testing: People need to go to work, get to appointments, visit with family and friends. For many of us, our quality of life depends on having a driver's licence. Over the past few years, Nova Scotians have faced longer than acceptable wait times to take their driver's tests. We've always said this: Our government is one of solutions. That's why we've added more examiners and made the testing system more efficient. Wait times are now down to three weeks across the province, and we aren't stopping there.

 

Our government prioritizes the safety of Nova Scotians. That's why we supported the Traffic Safety Act as a new, modern piece of legislation to replace the outdated Motor Vehicle Act. The Motor Vehicle Act was last rewritten in the early 1920s. The way we move around the province has changed greatly since the days when horses and buggies were still a familiar sight on our highways.

 

As a result, the Act has been amended many times, creating a patchwork piece of legislation that has many parts, with unclear, inconsistent, and outdated language. The TSA sets broad policy and regulatory authority to address the more technical and day-to-day issues that arise in the administration of road safety in the province. The Act moves many technical details into regulations, which gives us more flexibility and allows us to be more responsive to emerging issues and trends.

 

This means Nova Scotians will benefit from a modern regulatory framework that will keep up with the times and keep them safer for years to come. Since the bill received Royal Assent, affected government departments have been working hard. They're developing an implementation strategy that makes the best use of available technology, minimizes impacts to road users, and considers the extensive feedback we received from stakeholders. The task we assigned them was significant, and they recognized the tremendous importance of their work. This Act and its regulations will impact every Nova Scotian. This is an active file, it's a priority, and we are pursuing it aggressively. We must get this right, and we're taking the time needed to do just that.

 

Local transportation services are essential to help people get to work, appointments, learning opportunities, and recreational activities. These services keep us connected. It's especially important in our rural communities that do not have fixed-route transportation options. Many people in our rural communities rely on these services for their everyday needs. I am proud that the Department of Public Works can invest in these community transportation operators so they can expand and continue to help people get where they need to be.

 

Annually, the Province invests more than $7 million in fixed-route transit and community transportation services through several grant programs. From funding studies to help operators improve their services or establish new routes, to capital investments that facilitate fleet upgrades, we are working to enhance community transportation services and options to help improve the quality of life in Nova Scotian communities.

 

Community transportation operators provide a vital service. The service they provide would not be possible without great Nova Scotians behind them, who either work or volunteer with these organizations to strengthen our communities. I'd like to thank these organizations and the volunteers and the workers for everything they do.

 

Transportation is also incredibly important in our more heavily populated parts of the province. We have invested $140 million in transit in the HRM, including $65 million for the Mill Cove ferry service from Bedford to downtown Halifax. This project includes the purchase of five electric ferries, the construction of two terminals, and a maintenance facility. Many thought that this day would never come. I am proud that my government was able to make this dream a reality.

 

Link Nova Scotia: The Joint Regional Transportation Agency was created in the Fall of 2021 to address transportation issues associated with rapid growth in Halifax and surrounding communities. Our government showed leadership in 2021 when we created the agency and their work has been a tremendous success. Now it's time to take the next step in the evolution of this agency and expand its work province-wide. Our growing communities need transportation options and improved connectivity. The reliable movement of people and goods supports our economy, supports trade, and makes it easier for people to get to work, school, and other important destinations. We need a system that is dependable, efficient, and safe.

 

The amendments that we have introduced to the JRTA lay the groundwork for the future transportation system. The evolution of the agency broadens its scope beyond a one-time, HRM-specific transportation review. It updates the agency's governance structure, creates new ministerial authorities, establishes the ability to create regulations, and this is how we will advance efforts to ease congestion and provide transportation solutions for the entire province.

 

If we are going to unlock our province's potential, we have a lot of work to do. The transportation sector is no exception. We have plans to ease congestion on Highway No. 102. We are twinning our major highways and building new interchanges. We are looking at light rail and looking to leverage federal transit dollars for rapid transit projects. Link Nova Scotia will be at the centre of all this activity and more. It's work that just can't wait. We need to transform this agency, better equipping the organization to work with our partners and make these projects happen.

 

Over the past two years they have built strong partnerships with HRM, the Port of Halifax, the airport, Halifax Harbour Bridges, ACOA, and CN. Together we have built momentum and these amendments will move our work into the fast lane. We want to give people and businesses every opportunity we can to be successful. We want to link Nova Scotian communities to improve people's lives by providing better connections, safer commutes, and more affordable travel options. We are ready to make the changes to make that possible.

 

In December of 2022, Nova Scotia Lands, Develop Nova Scotia, and the Healthcare Infrastructure Renewal group combined to become Build Nova Scotia. Build Nova Scotia is working to help communities reach their full potential by managing projects that improve the quality of life for Nova Scotians, strengthen our communities, and grow our economy. Build Nova Scotia is responsible for the province's HRM and CBRM health care redevelopment projects, waterfront and industrial park development, land bank asset management, and environmental remediation.

 

They are also responsible for the Internet for Nova Scotia Initiative and the Cellular for Nova Scotia Program. The Internet for Nova Scotia Initiative is a tremendous success. It surpassed its goals and now 99 per cent of Nova Scotians have access to a connection, and 100 per cent have access to satellite. The remaining areas are among the most complex, due to geography and infrastructure challenges. Even so, we started in 2024 with just over 10,000 addresses to connect, and today I am pleased to report that we are down under 900. That's amazing. Build Nova Scotia is actively working with all partners to overcome these challenges and ensure timely expansion of internet.

 

[4:45 p.m.]

 

Having reliable cell service is essential for Nova Scotians. It's a matter of safety and it's something we all count on. I drive quite a bit, and I know first-hand how bad cell coverage can be in some of our rural areas. It's been an issue for a long time, and I'm proud to say that we are the first government to tackle this critical issue.

 

I'm proud to say that our government is unlocking Nova Scotia's full potential. We're committed to finishing the work we started. We're committed to making Nova Scotia a place where we all have a brighter future. None of this would be possible without the many civil servants throughout government who are hard at work every day, making our ideas a reality.

 

To finish, I would like to thank the 2,000 employees who work for the Department of Public Works for their hard work to ensure that we have a safe, high-quality transportation system that Nova Scotians can rely on. With that, Chair, I'm happy to take questions.

 

THE CHAIR: I now go to the Official Opposition, the NDP, and the honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: First, before I start my questioning of the minister, I just want to also give my kudos to the Department of Public Works. I work very closely with them, as someone with tons upon tons of kilometres of provincial roads, particularly provincial local roads.

 

I'm going to start my questions with Build Nova Scotia, as that was the minister's last comments. Going off Build Nova Scotia, I'd ask the minister, why are all the seats vacant on the Nova Scotia advisory board, and how are decisions being made when every seat is vacant?

 

HON. FRED TILLEY: Sorry, I'm just wondering if the member could repeat the last part of that question.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I asked, with all the seats vacant on the Build Nova Scotia Advisory Board, how are decisions being made with every seat being vacant?

 

FRED TILLEY: I would just like to remind the member that it's not a decision-making board. It's simply an advisory board. We do have applications in the hopper now that we're reviewing, and we will be going forward with that. Decisions are being made based on the priorities of the government, priorities for Nova Scotians. The board is advisory, not decision-making.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Advisory also helps provide help in that decision-making, and that is why it's an important board. What is the current timeline for getting the board in place? The minister mentioned there are applications in the hopper so I'm just wondering what the current timeline is.

 

FRED TILLEY: As soon as the applications are reviewed.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'll take it that right at the moment we don't have a timeline for that yet. The budget for Build Nova Scotia has steeply increased for the 2025-26 year. I was wondering if the minister could explain where the increase of funds will be allocated.

 

FRED TILLEY: The majority of the increase is for Phase 2 of the cell gap.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Build Nova Scotia, as we know, has been entrusted by Nova Scotia's Minister of Public Works to project manage the planning and implementation remedial activities for Boat Harbour.

 

Can the minister provide basically a full update on the timeline for all remedial activities?

 

FRED TILLEY: Recently the approval has been granted for work at Boat Harbour. One of the conditions of that is to work with other proponents to find a suitable place for the remediated materials. We're currently working through that process right now, with consultation.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'm wondering if the minister could tell me what currently is the projected cost of the Boat Harbour Remediation Project?

 

FRED TILLEY: The budgeted amount is $425 million.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: The Auditor General recently found that the remediation cost of Boat Harbour has steadily increased while activities were paused, while waiting for studies, reviews and the federal decision.

 

In the 2023-24 year alone the cost increased by $34 million. Does the minister anticipate that these costs will continue to increase because of the rising inflation?

 

FRED TILLEY: In the last number of years we've seen cost escalations in every project in every jurisdiction in Canada experiencing cost escalations. Whenever a project is delayed or changed, costs can - but at the end of the day we do our best to work through those cost escalations. I can't speculate on what a cost escalation may be for the future just because we don't know what the future entails.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: We know costs have been rising, and I am wondering if the minister can tell me if, in the budget, the department has allotted for potential project increases when putting up the estimation of what the department is going to be spending.

 

FRED TILLEY: Yes, when budgets are put in place there are contingencies put in place for escalation. One thing that I neglected to say in my previous answer is that there is also $100 million in recovery from the federal government for this project, as well.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Continuing on with Build Nova Scotia, can the minister provide an update on the Glace Bay Hospital project, and what is the projected timeline for completion?

 

FRED TILLEY: Glace Bay is still in the planning stages and it actually would fall under the Department of Health and Wellness, as well. It's still in the planning.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: With that I will ask: Are all health care services falling under the Department of Health and Wellness or are some, like Cape Breton Regional Hospital, still under Build Nova Scotia?

 

[5:00 p.m.]

 

FRED TILLEY: When it comes to the planning and the development, it's through Health and Wellness, then project managing the construction would come through Build. Cape Breton redevelopment is still under that.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Onward to the Cape Breton Regional Hospital: On the Build Nova Scotia website, the last update stated that the work on the clinical services building was continuing, which includes the new emergency room department, critical care department, surgical suite, the cardiac catheter lab, and family newborn services.

 

The minister and I both know how much all this is needed in our community. Could the minister provide a timeline for when these new developments will see completion?

 

FRED TILLEY: As mentioned, all the management of the Cape Breton redevelopment projects are under the Department of Health and Wellness. I wouldn't have those details to share.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'm confused, because it's on the Build Nova Scotia website. I would like some clarification. I believe what I heard the minister say was that the planning was with the Department of Health and Wellness, but the building and construction were under Build Nova Scotia. I'm looking for some clarification.

 

FRED TILLEY: Yes, that's true. However, the authority for the Cape Breton Regional projects and the redevelopment has been passed over; it's been signed off to the Department of Health and Wellness.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'm wondering if the minister could tell me if the contract for the Halifax Infirmary redevelopment project has been signed, and if that is still with Build Nova Scotia and his department.

 

FRED TILLEY: Similar to Cape Breton redevelopment, the HI project is also under the Department of Health and Wellness, but from my understanding, it has been signed.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I would make a suggestion to the minister or to those in the department to maybe change the information on the website for Build Nova Scotia because it now seems to be possibly outdated.

 

I want to switch gears here and go on to - fully switching gears, and no pun intended - highways and roads. The government is budgeting $500 million for highways, which they did in the 2024-25 year. The same amount will be remaining in this year, is my understanding. I'm wondering: Can the minister comment on whether we are seeing fewer projects now than in the past? A dollar doesn't take us very far these days. Considering we were at $500 million last year and $500 million this year, I'm just wondering.

 

FRED TILLEY: The one thing I can say about the Department of Public Works is the amazing work they do every year with regard to deciding how much we're going to do. We're going to do 150-plus projects this year, and that is consistent with last year. The ways things - when you look at multiple-year projects, the work getting done, it can't be - you can't look at it and say, “This project is very rarely start-to-finish in one fiscal year. We end up spreading that out over time.”

 

When we look at project-to-project, we're actually up a little bit. When we look at project-to-project, it's a similar program to what we had last year; we go to the twinning of the highways. The type of work is also different every year, so it's hard to compare. One work might be heavy in asphalt; the next year might be heavy in preparation and groundwork. When you look at budgets, you have to look more along - longitudinal across multiple years.

 

We're going to do 150 projects across the province this year. We've doubled the Gravel Road Program, a significant investment in RIM - doubling of RIM for the last number of years. The work on our roads and highways is significant.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'm wondering if the minister can tell me how often requests for quotations are coming in higher than anticipated. If that is the case, how is the department handling the increased cost of goods?

 

FRED TILLEY: When projects are put together - I've only been here a few months now, but I'm so impressed with the knowledge in the department: the engineering department, highway maintenance, and major construction. Their ability to estimate what projects - it's not that often that projects come in higher than expected. When they do - and of course that's going to happen from time to time - but when they do, what we do is we look at the timing of the work, so we're able to maybe take portions and get some of those done, in preparation. Because of the multi-year time allocations, we're able to spread that out more evenly over time. I hope that answers your question.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: The highway projects for the 2025-26 year include upgrades to Highway No. 125, Grand Lake Road intersection and Trunk 4 from the highway. Can you provide a timeline for when that will be completed?

 

I just realized, I want to make sure that the minister was looking at the right thing and that is the Grand Lake Road-SPAR Road intersection. Just to make sure we're on the right track here.

 

FRED TILLEY: We're currently working on the estimates for that project - late Spring, early Summer. Then we'll work on tenders. We can get back to you on a specific date.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Continuing with Grand Lake Road, it continues to be a problem as most of it is in my constituency. The same potholes are continuously opening up every year. The road has been done a few times. I think, in the past 15, maybe 20 years, it has been done about three times, yet the problems continue to persist in the exact same spots, as I'm sure the minister knows from having to drive that road to the NSCC.

 

I'm wondering what is being done in the department so that the department doesn't have to go back in five years and redo that same section. What irrigation issues are engineers looking at to ensure that this road has a good shelf life?

 

[5:15 p.m.]

 

FRED TILLEY: The department is always monitoring through our excellent maintenance crew and department issues that are recurring issues. As you know, that area is a very high traffic area, right? I mean, it's kind of the throughfare if you're coming from downtown, you're going out to The Bay, or you're coming from the North Side and you're heading out SPAR Road or to The Bay or wherever. That intersection - and I think there's a kilometre there that either side is going to be done, but if you have anything more specific on a certain area of Grand Lake Road, which turns into (interruption) yeah, as you get out further, then you could either ask a specific area or talk to the area manager, Jeff, and he can give you an idea.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Jeff and I spend a lot of time talking. We're really buddy-buddies at this point. The area of Grand Lake Road is specifically that area around Kytes Hill all the way down to the Gardiner Road turnoff. Water is continually beginning to pool on the outer lanes, making it pretty much safe to drive only in the inner lanes during any kind of rain. Hydroplaning is becoming an issue, as is people practically losing control of their vehicles when, for two seconds, heavy rain has hit their windows and they can no longer see. It's that whole area, and that whole area - as the minister would know from many years of driving it - there are specific places where it continually breaks up, and we're also at the point where it has a curb - as the minister knows - and that curb isn't even meeting the road. It has kind of fallen.

 

I know this part of the road is scheduled to be done. What I don't want to see is that road be done and then next year or a year or two years from now - or two years from completion - we're in the same position that we've already been in. I'm just asking, are we going to have engineers out there to look at the road to ensure proper irrigation is on that road?

 

FRED TILLEY: The sections of that road that are going to be completed this Summer, the main section that you're talking about, is from the Wash Plant Road through to the Gardiner Road turnoff. That's what's going to get done this summer, and that's through the construction group. They will be looking at that as they go forward. The other section that's being done around the intersection is MacGuire Drive down to Garth Wilson Avenue, right? There are two sections there. I have driven that area quite a bit, and it is bad from the wash plant out, right? There's deterioration, so that's the part that's going to get done this summer.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I guess I'll keep it on Cape Breton highways. Highway No. 125 continually needs to be fixed due to ruts forming in the road almost immediately after it was done, not so long ago in the recent past. These ruts started appearing in the road, as the minister would know. What is the department doing to ensure that we don't throw good money after bad? What are we doing to find out what the underlying cause of those ruts is, so that we can have roads that are safe and sometimes not taking your car?

 

FRED TILLEY: Highway No. 125 is near and dear to my heart. It partially borders several constituencies in Cape Breton. It's a very well-travelled road. It has seen it's share of traffic over the last number of years.

 

You're right. We want to fix Highway No. 125, but we want to make sure that we fix it so that it doesn't happen again. Under previous fixes, it didn't last.

 

When I think about rutting, it's a difficult thing, and the member would see it, as well. When we're from Cape Breton, we say, “Oh my God.” It's not really a Cape Breton thing. It happens in a lot of areas, and we travel through some of those areas as we come here. We're currently working on investigating what's - looking at the asphalt mix, looking at the performance, looking at the traffic load. Is there something in that area that's causing the asphalt to deteriorate quicker than it normally would?

 

We live in a very challenging province when we look at damage to roads from weather. Over the last number of years, it's gotten worse with the freeze/thaw, freeze/thaw and the traffic.

 

I definitely recognize that Highway No. 125 is an issue. We're going to get that rectified. But we want to make sure that when we do, it's the right fix and it lasts. I'm very confident in the team. We've talked about it, and they're really digging into what the fix needs to be. We'll have more on that later. Right now, it's a priority, and it's something that needs to get rectified.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'm happy to hear from the minister that this is being investigated. I think many residents will be happy to know that this is going to be investigated. As the minister knows, this is becoming - it's a problem. It's a safety problem. It's becoming an economic problem for people who are experiencing some damage to their vehicles.

 

I want to talk about RIM. Could the minister remind us how much is budgeted for the RIM Program this year?

 

FRED TILLEY: For this year's budget, $22 million has been budgeted for RIM.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'm wondering if the minister could tell me how the $22 million will be allocated.

 

FRED TILLEY: There's a formula that allocates it out. It's by activity type and the number of kilometres of road in a particular district. That's how they - it would be allocated by activity by kilometre of road.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I'm wondering: In the budget, the local rural roads that are to be paved, are they on the RIM program, or will they be dug up and repaved? Most of RIM is just big patchworks rather than the digging up of some of those local roads.

 

FRED TILLEY: I guess the answer to that is that it depends. RIM is more designed for your patching, your shoulder work, your ditching - those types of things - a quick resurface. If you get into the pavement preservation, it depends on what a road has been allocated and what the activity level is for that particular road that you're talking about. It could be a full construction. If it's shown on the construction side of the five-year plan, then that's what it would be. If it's RIM, it's going to be more patching, smaller areas, trouble spots.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Thinking back on the budget, I'm wondering if the minister could help me with some language within it. If it says “to be paved,” does that mean it will be paved? If it's on RIM, will it say “RIM” - a local provincial road?

 

FRED TILLEY: I'm wondering: Can you give us an example of a road? There are so many roads that we're dealing with - 23,000 kilometres. If you could give us an example of a road in particular, we can tell you where that road fits.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: This road is not in the capital project, but it's the first one that hits my head. That would be a road like Daley Road in New Victoria. I would consider it a connector road. It goes from Union Highway - when you turn off Union Highway, you can turn on to May Street, which turns into Daley, which goes right to - which connects to New Waterford Highway.

 

[5:30 p.m.]

 

That would be the kind of road I'm looking at. Would that road be considered a pave? More of what I was really asking was in the capital plan. If it says “paved” - “to be paved” - would it be paved? If it's going to be a RIM project, would it say “RIM”?

 

FRED TILLEY: I'm sure this is not the answer that the member - because it is not definitive. It will depend on the particular road because some - or on the condition. If it's a maintenance pave or a complete reconstruction of the road, we have two different crews. We have maintenance paving and then we have the construction. The construction would come in and do everything - all the ditching, all the shouldering, and all that stuff - as opposed to the maintenance stuff, which is smaller jobs.

 

If it's in the Five-Year Highway Improvement Plan, it's a paving job. We don't put the RIM jobs in the five-year plan because they're - they can come up at any time because a pot - an example that I can think of on the Little Pond Road. There was all of a sudden a - residents were calling. There were a lot of crock pits undermining in that area and underneath the road kind of washed away. Then there was a hole that developed in that road, and the hole kept getting bigger. People would hit their tire in it, and the next thing you know, you've got flat tires and forms that come in looking for tires.

 

That is something that - is not something that just happened. It was like, boom, there's a hole in the road, so we need to get that fixed. That would be under the local department's budget, or maybe there was RIM that could be applied to that job. The patch was this big, but underneath was where it had to be filled, compacted, and made room for to ensure it wouldn't drop again. It depends on the road, but if you want to send us a list of the roads, we can certainly tell you, if it's in the five-year plan, what's going to be done with that road.

 

One of the things I'm super proud of, when we looked at the Five-Year Highway Improvement Plan, is that there are projects in all 18 counties of Nova Scotia. We try to spread the work out across the province as best as possible because everyone's roads are super important for everybody. We do our best. I know from chatting with you that you have your regular meetings with your locals. The other thing I would encourage you to do is to have your - when the time comes every year to meet with the chief, you would do that as well. I think there are some paving projects - well, that one is certainly yours on Grand Lake Road, from Wash Plant Road to Gardiner Road. I think there's some down as well.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I do all that. I guess what I'm going to ask the minister now is, is the Department of Public Works, is this government committed to paving - not just RIM, a lot of them are really deteriorated - the local provincial roads that are residential areas. I'm not talking about Grand Lake Road or Sydney Road or New Waterford Highway and trunks.

 

I'm talking about the smaller roads people are actually living on. They haven't seen their road done since possibly the 1960s, the 1970s, and their roads are just deteriorating. And they're not J-Class. They belong fully to us. There's not an agreement between municipalities and the province. These are our own roads.

 

FRED TILLEY: When it comes down to the municipal roads, or roads within the municipality, we continue to work with the municipality, Municipal Affairs, on roads that are not - so with J-Class, we know how that works. The municipality sends their list. It's a matching, it's shared 50/50 with the municipalities. And that's how J-Class roads get done.

 

If there are roads that aren't J-Class, but are considered residential roads, that's something that we would look at, how we need to refurbish a road that belongs 100 per cent to us. But we're constantly working with the municipality, the traffic conditions, the road conditions. Some of that stuff we can do through RIM, or through local budgets.

 

But at the end of the day, I think what we have to do is look at the particular roads. Look at negotiating with the municipalities on the service agreements for those roads. Obviously the priority has to be the 100-Series, trunks, routes, those types of roads. I'm really proud of the work that we're doing there. And also, with the J-Class, there's a mechanism for that.

 

I'd love for the member to send us some examples. Maybe work with the local councillor in the area as well, and the municipal council and we can chat about service agreements, because that's one of the issues. In my particular constituency, I would have a lot of subdivision roads, Cantley Village, some of the subdivisions in Westmount, in the Northside, all of Florence, Alder Point. All these areas all flow through. They are residential areas but they are areas of the former county. When the service agreement was negotiated in, I think it was 1996, those roads weren't dealt with. I've heard stories of, they just said: Oh we'll put them over here and we'll deal with them later. They never actually got dealt with.

 

One of the things we need to do is take a look at that. I hear you on the residential side with regards to the plowing and with regards to all of those services that have to be taken into account for the residential-type roads in our communities.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I am trying to understand because it seems like the minister is saying that it is going to be up to municipalities to get those local provincial roads done. I've heard this time and time again. I don't understand how the government of Nova Scotia seems to - I don't know how to say this because I don't want to sound adversarial or rude, so I'm trying to figure out how to say this very politely.

 

I don't understand how the government can say: We own these roads but we're going to look at the municipality to see if they're going to help pave them when they are our roads. They are our responsibility. They're not a municipality's responsibility; they are ours. That would be like me asking someone else to pay my mortgage. It's not their responsibility to pay my mortgage, it's mine.

 

I'm just saying that from what the minister said, Chair, was that they would be talking to the municipalities but they're not municipal roads. Even J-Class roads are still owned by the province of Nova Scotia. The municipalities have decided to go into an agreement of J-Class just so they can get them paved but they're still owned by the province of Nova Scotia, they're still our roads. We've just let them go so long that municipalities decided to make agreements for J-Class in order to get them paved and then spend 10 years, a decade or so, waiting to finish getting all these roads paved.

 

Again, I want to ask, is the province of Nova Scotia going to start paving their own local roads and not rely on municipalities to throw in 50 cent dollars?

 

FRED TILLEY: With regard to J-Class roads, I want to talk about those for a second. They are actually - based on the 1995 service agreement they are the responsibility of the municipal governments. We do the 50-50 cost shares to help out but the responsibility for J-Class is on the municipality. The $2 million provincially is there to help with that.

 

We do work on local roads that are not classified as J-Class roads. When we determine what type of work and what needs to be done, there's a decision matrix that takes place, which is traffic volume on the road, condition of the road. Are there businesses on the road? Are there churches on the road? Are there halls on the road? All of these things come into play when determining what actually gets done on a local road. I'm not sure if that's answering your question.

 

[5:45 p.m.]

 

I would urge you, if there's a particular local road that has not been picked up, for whatever reason, that you feel needs some work, certainly bring that forward to the local area manager or the supervisor in the area, as well. If there's something unsafe or dangerous there, they'll look at that and get that looked at.

 

I think again, keeping that list of priorities, that list of items that you feel are necessary in your particular area, for your constituents - I'm sure in your office, Dillon is keeping a list of issues called in and stuff like that. If you're seeing an increase on a certain road that has been causing issues in your community, certainly . . .

 

The other thing, too, and this goes outside of the local roads. I receive some emails every now and then about . . .

 

THE CHAIR: Order. The time for questions from the Official Opposition has concluded. We will move on to the third party.

 

The honourable member for Timberlea-Prospect.

 

HON. IAIN RANKIN: I want to thank the government officials for being here this evening, into the night, to help the minister answer questions. It's a super important department that the minister has taken over. Our roads, the condition of them, keep people safe across the province. It's a really important role. I work really well with the local team in the Halifax Region and the Timberlea area, the Beechville depot. I know many of the senior management people, who have all been great over the last number of years that I have served, even some of the new senior managers who have been in different departments. The minister is well supported by the outstanding staff.

 

I will start with the J-Class road discussion, because I think it's an important one. I think we have a big problem with it. I'll start with the comments around the service agreement of 1995-96, which was a supposed negotiation with municipalities, which are really creatures of the province.

 

My understanding is that it was quite arbitrary in terms of what roads were deemed J-Class roads. A certain number of kilometres were put into J-Class category with no semblance of any reason why. I'll give an example. In my area, in Brookside, somebody would be on a J-Class road, and somebody across the street would be on an actual provincially maintained and owned road. The problem with that is that it's hard for us MLAs to say, You need your road paved, and the province is going to pay for that. Your neighbour who pays the same tax rate in HRM and presumably in CBRM and other municipalities, if you need your road paved, it's going to have to go to HRM council for a vote for a cost share, and 50 per cent of what is being levied by HRM is actually going to come out of your property tax.

 

I have two problems with the scenario we're facing right now. This isn't the minister's doing by any stretch of imagination, but it's a problem that he's going to have to deal with. HRM has been asking residents to pay for half of it, even when residents don't even know if they're on a J-Class road or not. This is a problem, especially for MLAs who represent areas that are so-called rural, rural HRM - not just my area. There are a number of roads that were paved around the 1980s or 1990s, and the condition of them means they need to be repaved now or at least in the next few years. It's bad enough that an MLA has to explain to them that to repave them - I'm not talking about gravel roads, to turn them from gravel to pavement, because that's a separate line item in the budget. I'm talking about repaving existing roads that are already paved. These residents have to pay a tax on the 50 per cent share that HRM is levying.

 

On top of that problem is that there's only so much in the provincial budget. I'd like to ask the minister - the first question is: How much is in the provincial budget for J-Class, and maybe for the sake of time, both to pave new roads - which is a separate line item - and for the repaving of existing J-Class roads that are already paved for the whole province? That's a good place to start. How much is in the budget for those two areas for J-Class roads?

 

THE CHAIR: The honourable Minister of Public Works.

 

HON. FRED TILLEY: They're cost-shared at 50-cent dollars. It's basically evenly split - about a million for new and a million for repaving, provincially, which would be two and two with the split.

 

IAIN RANKIN: I would suggest that that number is woefully inadequate. We could spend that number in one subdivision, in one part of one constituency out of 55. I would suggest to the member that there are - maybe I'll ask the question, and I'll start it while the staff might look around for it. The question is: How many J-Class roads do we have in the province?

 

The reason why I say that is - and they should have this number. If we're in a budget session and we're looking at how much we should allocate to service residents who are living on these J-Class roads, whether they're 50-cent dollars or not - which is another issue, in terms of the service agreement in 1995 and how that should be long past due to update that agreement.

 

I know the department is aware of the issue. I know there were issues in the Valley region in the past, under a prior government, when there had to be a significant one-time boost to the budget to pave a whole bunch of these J-Class roads.

 

I would propose we take another serious look, obviously in HRM - in the constituency I represent, in Halifax Atlantic, in Chester-St. Margaret's - in areas that I know there are rural areas. I can't speak to the CBRM situation that the member referenced. I would wager a guess that there are a number of J-Class roads that are in dire need of repaving. If there's only $1 million to repave roads that were paved 30 years ago, the department has a big problem before them.

 

I would ask the minister: Can he say how many J-Class roads are in our province for that $1 million and the other $1 for maintenance?

 

FRED TILLEY: I want to note that we're currently renegotiating with the municipalities on J-Class, so those talks are ongoing. There are approximately 1,300 kilometres of J-Class roads throughout the province.

 

IAIN RANKIN: I really appreciate that answer. We have 1,300 kilometres of road. I don't need to go into the math to show that $2 million is not going to go very far for asphalt for those stretches of roads.

 

I'd like to ask the minister: If a municipality or a council votes to approve some of these roads and there's not enough in the budget, will he make sure that's presented to Treasury Board to increase the budget, especially with the government's record of asking for additional appropriations throughout the year? Would he make sure those requests are honoured to the municipalities to take care of those J-Class roads across the province?

 

FRED TILLEY: We do have a great relationship with our municipalities around the province, and we work quite closely with them. If a proposal came through, I'm sure we would talk about it. The other side of the coin here is that the Department of Municipal Affairs is the group that manages that relationship with regard to J-Class and negotiations. We would have to work with our colleagues there.

 

[6:00 p.m.]

 

I think something to note there is that every municipality in the province does things differently with regard to J-Class. I heard the member talk about asking residents to pay for roads, those types of things. That's probably specific to one particular municipality. I hadn't heard that. I think, at the end of the day, we would want to work with the municipality. We want to renegotiate that agreement, and we'll work with Municipal Affairs to see what that's - whatever we can do to support them.

 

IAIN RANKIN: I could spend more time on that, but I guess I'll just suggest that we just pave them all and transfer them over to the municipalities. Something of that kind of scenario is really ultimately what would be fair.

 

I'm going to ask about 100-Series highways. I would like to ask a budget question on that. Obviously, my interest is going to be the Highway No. 103, which goes along the Timberlea area into Tantallon. There has been some twinning as you go beyond Tantallon to the South Shore. We've had challenges trying to get budgets for the repaving of that 100-Series highway.

 

My first question to the minister is: What's the allocation for actually repaving 100-Series highways in the province, and how does that break out through the regions?

 

FRED TILLEY: There's $19 million for that allocation. We try to split that as evenly as possible across the four districts.

 

IAIN RANKIN: I do appreciate the precise answers. It is helpful. Is there a certain allotment given to Highway No. 103? I know there are always exceptions based on the condition of them, but I would submit that the condition between Exit 3 and Exit 5 is, by many accounts, deplorable.

 

There was, last year, one section of that highway only eastbound from Exit 3 into the city, to what they call the Beechville overpass, over the Rails to Trails, which is approximately five kilometres. But the westbound side of the highway was not repaved, which is full of potholes.

 

This is a major - probably amongst the busiest highways - anyone who's coming from the South Shore would have to go over that to get into the city. Anyone who lives in the HRM would definitely travel that highway. Anyone coming out to the best constituency in the province, obviously, would be coming off that highway. It's only going to get busier.

 

I think that's why the priority was given to that section. As you go closer to the city, it's the most heavily trafficked, but only the eastbound side was paved, and not the westbound side. Similarly, as you go past Exit 3, between Exit 3 and Exit 4, Exit 4 to Exit 5, both westbound, both eastbound, I would submit, should be repaved.

 

I would like to ask the minister: What's the plan to repave Highway No. 103 between Exit 3 and Exit 5, and is there any budget allocation in the five-year plan for that?

 

FRED TILLEY: That area that the member speaks about has been identified as an area that needs to be addressed. It is a couple of years out. In the meantime, they'll continue to do the maintenance to make sure that it's maintained. When the time comes, they'll be able to use that allocation that we talked about, the $19 million, the share, to put towards that project.

 

IAIN RANKIN: What I'm hearing is the $19 million is an annual fee that's put into the capital plan for 100-Series highways, and that there's no funding going into this section of Highway No. 103 for this year. The minister mentioned that there's going to be some work in a couple of years. I'd like confirmation if the section between Exit 5 to Exit 3 will be repaved in that two-year time frame, or are we looking at a multi-year time frame? I'd like to ask the minister.

 

I don't think that it is acceptable that there'll be no more work this year on Highway No. 103, given how busy that section is. I could stand to be corrected; if anybody knows of a highway that has heavier traffic than Highway No. 103, especially that section, I'd love to hear it. If there's no money in this budget for Highway No. 103 between those sections this year, I'd just ask for a commitment that there will be in the next year, and what sections will be completed.

 

FRED TILLEY: As we spoke, it has been identified and it is a couple of years out. They will continue to monitor it for the future just to make sure that everything stays as is, but yes, it is a couple of years off.

 

IAIN RANKIN: As we get closer into the city outside of my area, obviously Highway No. 102 is a point of congestion going into the Bayers Road area for commuters. I will ask the question because it was brought up that there was some kind of a promise to widen Highway No. 102 and I don't see anything in the capital plan. I ask the question: If there is a plan to widen Highway No. 102 leading into Halifax, what year will that be in and is this a recommendation that came out of the JRTA?

 

FRED TILLEY: That area is under pre-engineering work. At this point it is under review. We are not quite sure what is going to happen there. It's the JRTA - it would be part of their plan and that is under review right now at the department.

 

IAIN RANKIN: Actually, I have an idea. I believe the JRTA report was due some time ago. Will the minister release the report so we can actually look at the findings of what is being recommended, and if not now, when is that planning to be released to the public?

 

FRED TILLEY: I am glad the member asked about the JRTA report because it kind of gives me an opportunity to talk a little bit about the JRTA. I am very happy and very proud of the work that this government has done by creating the JRTA. It's a program that's being looked at across Canada and it's the first of its kind in Atlantic Canada. This government recognized the fact that there were issues with congestion. We need to fix the traffic issues in and around HRM and broader for Nova Scotia.

 

What we found is that - you know something? We need to expand the JRTA to a provincial network system where we can move forward with transportation projects that are going to unlock Nova Scotia's potential. The ability to look at rail, to look at transit, to be able to access that federal transit fund of $30 billion. $3 billion a year over 10 years can do huge improvements, the commitment to the Mill Cove ferry project. All of these projects are going to improve.

 

[6:15 p.m.]

 

When you look at traffic and the congestion and the frustration that people are feeling on a daily basis, stuck in traffic for hours when they need to get where they need to go, they need to get to work, they need to get to appointments, or they need to get their kids at school. We need to get goods out of the city. The work of the JRTA is going to unlock that. It's going to help to grow this province exponentially over time.

 

With regard to the report, as I mentioned, the report is currently under review at the government department, and it will be released after review. At the end of the day, we're going to fix the traffic congestion and we're going to make a big difference in people's daily commute.

 

IAIN RANKIN: When will the JRTA report become public?

 

FRED TILLEY: When the review is complete.

 

IAIN RANKIN: Was the government not already announcing, even previous to the election, some of the parts that were recommended in that report? Do they not already have the report?

 

FRED TILLEY: The report has been received. It's being reviewed, and it will be released after the review is complete.

 

IAIN RANKIN: Have any of the parts of the review been announced in the HRM area? Has the Hammonds Plains connector or any of the other ideas around widening Highway No. 102 or anything been part of this review?

 

FRED TILLEY: Obviously, it doesn't take a report for us to determine where some of the difficult areas are in HRM specifically. You look at the Highway No. 102 and Hammonds Plains connector; you look at the Burnside and Highway No. 107 connector, all of these things. I would say the report is under review. We're taking action to fix the traffic issue in HRM. It's going to take time, but we're going to get it done.

 

IAIN RANKIN: Why is the review so late?

 

FRED TILLEY: I wouldn't classify the project as too late. It's a very, very important piece of work that's being done. We want to make sure it's done right. It's being reviewed. It will be released upon the finish of the review.

 

A lot of things happened in the last couple of months. There was an election. There was Christmas. Now we need to take a review of the report, and we're going to take our time to make sure we get this right. At the end of the day, it's going to get done. We're going to fix the traffic issues here in the HRM.

 

IAIN RANKIN: The government extended the environmental assessment for the proposed Highway No. 113 area. Is Highway No. 113 being proposed in the JRTA recommendations?

 

FRED TILLEY: Before I go into Highway No. 113, I would like to say how proud I am of this government again, the only government to tackle this. If I look back, imagine if there was a JRTA that was started when the NDP was in power. Imagine if a JRTA had been started when the Liberals were in power for eight years. Imagine how much further ahead we would be today.

 

We're going to do this. We're making it happen. We are going to fix the traffic issues in the HRM but we're going to do it right. We're going to take our time and we're going to make sure it's done.

 

With regard to Highway No. 113, we know that Highway No. 113 is a potential trade corridor that could ease traffic on Highway No. 102 and Highway No. 113. There's an environmental assessment, approval on Highway No. 113 right now. It's good planning to keep that environmental assessment in place.

 

We're going to keep that in place. Whether it's in the JRTA or not, we're not sure about that, I'm not sure about that. At the end of the day it's a trade corridor that's potential. The EA is in place and it will stay in place.

 

IAIN RANKIN: That is small-minded politics. We could do that all day long with the circular arguments of imagine if John Hamm had twinned Highway No. 104, imagine if Rodney MacDonald had twinned Highway No. 103 and early lives would be saved. That is just not what we should be doing in this House.

 

Of course when new governments come in, new projects are funded and approved. All governments try to push forward on making things better, making our highways safer. Of course, in 2013 and 2014 if our fiscal situation had been better, there would have been more capacity to invest in certain things.

 

Everybody has done things that contributed to the public good in this province, including the NDP. Imagine if we didn't have a five-year plan and the Tories got away with spending in their own constituencies like they did in the 1980s, even though I do see evidence of some of that happening today.

 

There have been contributions from every single party that has represented this House and I have credited all those parties and some of those past premiers with some of those things that are important for our areas.

 

I'm asking pointed questions because it's important not only for my constituents but people who voted for the Progressive Conservative Party in the last election, no matter where they are. Again, I think it is a sign of desperation and pressure that the new minister is resorting to that line of attack to try to make things happen by saying imagine if other governments didn't do anything they did.

 

Of course they're supposed to do new things; they're the new government. They have tens of billions of dollars at their disposal to spend on roads. Of course they should be able to list roads that they've paved that weren't paved 20, 30 years ago.

 

Good things happen in this province because of all political parties. No party owns good ideas. In the spirit of trying to work together, I did appreciate the collaboration from your predecessor, the previous minister, on looking at the issues around Prospect Road, which is a busy intersection and a road that goes into many distinct communities and has only one entrance and one exit out, unless you go all the way around to the Peggys Cove loop area.

 

There is a traffic study that I asked the minister about, and I'd like to ask the minister if he will listen to the recommendations being presented by CBCL in that traffic study to ensure that we are able to improve Prospect Road, especially for safety of people who not only vote Liberal, people who vote for all parties in this House? Will he make sure that he listens to the recommendations from the experts for that study?

 

FRED TILLEY: I'd like to thank the member for the question. When we look at professional reports, I think we don't hire professionals unless we are interested in listening to them. Certainly, if you look at the JRTA report or you look at a traffic study, you do these types of things in order to get information, right? It's a piece of information that would get added to the discussions, the decision-making as to what needs to take place. When you get a report with recommendations, no matter what the situation is or the cause or the reason for that report, you are going to look at that and you are going to say, Okay, let's prioritize the report; let's prioritize the recommendations. What are some of the things that we can do right away? What are some of the things that can move along?

 

When it comes to the study, the member and the community have been very much involved in the design and getting updates, as they go along. I think the department, as you mentioned, has been very cooperative to providing those updates, and they will continue to do so. I think the question was around committing to listening to the report. Of course, we are going to listen to the report. That's why we would commission someone to do a report, because we want the information. We want to be able to make the best decisions possible to help fix the traffic issues in that particular area.

 

I have been out to that area, and I know it's an issue with traffic. We hear about that area as very much a growing area. The Halifax Exhibition Park expansion is happening there, so we know it's a growing area. Certainly, when it comes time to implement some of those recommendations, we will, again, prioritize, look at the ability to - you know, what we are able to do at that particular point. I am sure when it comes, and I'm no engineer by any stretch, but when it comes to a project like this, there are going to be things that need to be done in some sort of a sequential fashion.

 

[6:30 p.m.]

 

I can think back to projects that - as an example, when we were looking at building a community college, and the member talked about all governments doing good things. The NSCC in Sydney was one of those projects that Premier McNeil put forward - truth be told, the mayor at the time put it forward, but Premier McNeil supported it and provided all the funding to do that project at that time.

 

When you look at - there were multiple reports with regard to that construction. I do have some experience with consultants providing reports, expertise - expert knowledge on particular areas. I remember that project well. At one point, it was the biggest or the largest pile - sounds kind of strange - pile-driving project in Canada.

 

There were over 800 pilings drilled - hammered. One of the things we had to deal with at that particular time was the noise from that constant hammering of those piles into the ground. There were 800 piles. At the end of the day, it's built right on the harbour, so sea level rise had to be taken into account. There had to be a report come in from engineers as to how high the base had to be built up to future-proof it, and it was built, I believe, with tides in mind for the next hundred years.

 

That's an example of - when you receive a report, you take a look at that report. At the end of the day, you'll never commit to implementing everything that's in a report because that's not practical, but there will be good things in there and things that are quick, easy wins that we can accomplish. In my mind, that's what we'll do.

 

We'll get a report - it's similar to the JRTA - we have to make sure we take the time to review it. Everyone who's in that particular area - when you do a report, I'm sure the engineers who are from that particular section could probably tell you 80 per cent of what's going to be in there because they know the issues, the confirmation of the traffic flows and the direction, and what needs to go in there. Does it need roundabouts? Does it need traffic signals? There's a lot that goes into a report like that.

 

This particular report, I believe, is due in the next month or so - or two - at which time we'll take our time to review it. Of course, the member and the community group PROBE would be briefed on that project. Then, of course, it'll be next steps after that. I guess that's a long-winded way to come around to say that we will look at the report, we will listen to the recommendations, and then we'll figure out next steps from there.

 

IAIN RANKIN: I'd like to ask: Before this study was conducted, it was well known there were two intersections along Prospect Road that needed attention. I'm glad the minister referenced how there is local knowledge on this with the people who work in the department. They would know very well the intersections of Brookside Road and Mills Drive. In my view both those intersections need some traffic calming in the way of traffic signal lights, especially the Brookside Road that has now a new development at that intersection with new commercial business opening up already.

 

I'd like to ask the minister if he can say whether or not the warrants are there to require a traffic light and make sure that we have that modest investment before the study can actually look at some of the longer term, more capital intensive investments that are required for the Prospect Road.

 

Ultimately we do want to see a new entrance and exit out. I make no apologies for pushing as hard as I can for that. I've had good collaborations to this point so far, on looking at those types of things.

 

I want to ask the minister a question, whether or not he will entertain improvements to Brookside Road and Mills Drive this year to prevent some traffic issues that we continue to see on Prospect Road? This is a relatively modest investment that we can do now.

 

FRED TILLEY: I believe that we've done some work on some intersections on Prospect Road, like Terence Bay, for example. I'm just taking a look at some of the information on the study, traffic signals, intersections, that's all part of it.

 

The report is a month or so away. Once we get that report, as I mentioned, there could be some quick fixes, quick wins in that report that we'd be able to take a look at.

 

IAIN RANKIN: Another issue that was brought to me by a landowner on the Prospect Road is that there is a Spring closure from, I think, at the beginning of Prospect Road all the way until the Club Road intersection. Trucks are allowed, going to that point, then trucks aren't allowed on the rest of road. The reason why that's an issue goes back to the minister's comment on unlocking potential of Nova Scotia, with JRTA.

 

We do have a shortage of light industrial land across the province and in the HRM. I know there's industrial land that is already zoned I-1 and I-3, further down Prospect Road in the Bayside area.

 

I committed to ask the question because presumably there's some kind of parameters or criteria where this is based on evidence. I thought I'd at least ask the question: Why is it that that section of Prospect Road has the closure for heavy trucks, given that there is an opportunity for industrial land that is further down? Are there specific

criteria around why that is the case? If there is any appetite to look at potentially extending the area that trucks can go down for unlocking that potential for those industrial lands?

 

FRED TILLEY: We have a responsibility to protect the road infrastructure and Spring weight decisions are made based on the measured strength of that particular road. When there are exemptions required, generally a request can come in, and then we'll send out the inspection group to inspect the strength of the road. I'm not sure if the resident or the business owner has requested that. If not, I would make sure that they do request it. Then after the Spring thaw, we can send out our tester and determine if our road can handle that. If so, we would move forward. If not, what does it need? Does it need an extra layer of asphalt? What needs to improve that strength? It would be an engineering, science-based decision at that point.

 

IAIN RANKIN: I guess I just found it odd that part of Prospect Road would have the Spring thaw threshold and the other part wouldn't. I would presume that the entire stretch, the whole loop, would have the same specs, when it's repaved. I could be wrong, and I'll look further into those details.

 

The minister mentioned local and RIM budgets. I would like to ask, how does that get divvied up? Is it based on regions? Is it based on other criteria? What's the budget for local and RIM budgets this year in this budget?

 

[6:45 p.m.]

 

FRED TILLEY: Again, one of the things I'm proud of with regard to this government and the doubling of that RIM Program - that's made a significant dent in some of the issues we have experienced across - and the doubling of the Gravel Road Program has been wonderful.

 

The allocation for that would be divvied up throughout the districts based on kilometres. If you had - across the four districts - the number of kilometres in a particular district divided by the total, you would allocate that way, and it would be similar for local roads. You would have to take a look at the local roads in each particular district. There is $6 million set aside provincially that is used for local road paving, and that would be allocated in the same way.

 

There is also funding at the particular area. They have a base amount of funding they can use within their area for their own area priorities, so they can take that. It's a more difficult question to answer with regard to the local road stuff because some of it depends on how the district is prioritized. It can be based on taking from their allocation to do that or using their local-based funding to cover some of those programs. In some cases, they may determine that RIM is the appropriate way to go to fix a particular road.

 

Long story short, it would be the number of kilometres for RIM and for the $6 million, then it would be a local decision around how they would allocate their own area maintenance budget.

 

THE CHAIR: Order. The time for the Liberal caucus has expired. We are going to move to the Official Opposition.

 

First, I want to know if the minister would like to have a break.

 

Yes. We are going to take our recess.

 

[6:47 p.m. The committee recessed.]

 

[6:56 p.m. The committee reconvened.]

 

THE CHAIR: Order. The honourable member for Cape Breton Centre-Whitney Pier.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Continuing on from our previous conversation with regard to roads and highways, I want to talk about Highway No. 101.

 

There's a section from Windsor to Mount Uniacke, Exit 4 to Exit 3, where the repair took over six months. This is coming from somebody who actually sent me an email. The resident told me, when the work was finished, there was a bump sign erected on that. And also, on Highway No. 101 between Exit 4 and Exit 5, the repair of the bridge over the river started in early spring and it took seven months to repair.

 

The resident was also expressing concerns about the time it takes to complete a project, and if there is language in the contracts about length of time it takes to complete such a project. Can the minister - and also was asking if we could find out - if the minister could explain to the residents what occurred here for such a long repair time.

 

HON. FRED TILLEY: In everything that we do, safety is the number one priority. In the case of this particular repair, it was caused due to a depression or a settlement in the area. Whenever that happens, we have to do geotechnical engineering work to determine the reason for the settlement, because you don't want to just go and - remember the story I told you about the hole in Little Pond Road.

 

The residents were calling: Why is this - this hole has been here. So, easily, the guys could have gone down with a truck and shovelled a bunch of gravel in, and put a patch over the top. And then within a week, the hole would have been back. So, it took a couple of months to figure out what's actually causing the settlement issue.

 

In this particular case, a similar thing would happen. Only this would be - I'm talking a pothole; this was a bigger repair. By the time you get the geotechnical done, and you get the contract, and the contractors lined up to do the work, any given thing can happen. Things get prioritized based on safety. If there was no risk of it fully settling, then it may take a little longer.

 

[7:00 p.m.]

 

Some projects take a little longer. Some projects are quicker. In this case, the geotechnical work was done. The project was - again, even with that - when you're dealing with Mother Nature, sometimes Mother Nature can be cranky.

 

In this case, there was a little settling afterwards that created a bit of a depression, which is why that sign would go up. Again, it's a safety-related sign. We want to alert the public that there's a little depression here as you go through, so people are aware and will adjust their speed accordingly. The last thing you would want to do is create some sort of safety hazard.

 

If I were to summarize that situation, it was an issue with settlement. The geotechnical work was completed. You have to hire someone to do that. You get the report. You figure out what's wrong. A plan is developed as to how you would fix that problem. Then the repair is carried out. At the end of the repair, a slight depression happened, and that's the result - the sign.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: The other question I have is similar to that. It's the contracts and the length of time. I know, including in my constituency, there was work supposed to be done, and it was being delayed. What we were being told by the department - because we're always in contact - was that the contractor was delayed in getting the work done.

 

My question is: Do we have anything - minus the fact that if it's too - if it's raining, you can't and you shouldn't be paving. The ground is too wet. It's ridiculous to pave. My father-in-law works with a paving company, so I understand all those concepts. If work is supposed to be done by a certain date - that's when the contract ends - if work is starting closer to when the contract is ending, do we have anything in there regarding the fact that contractors are delayed in getting the work done? Is there anything in our contracts about time delays?

 

FRED TILLEY: The member partially answered her own question, which is great. It's nice to have someone questioning who understands that weather can play havoc on construction and paving projects. With regard to the highway project, for instance, when you sign off on a tender, you sign off on a completion date. After that completion date, it's called liquidated damages. It's like a penalty or a fine. Every contract would be different, but it's not as cut and dried as that because there could be extenuating circumstances. For instance, this was a very rainy season, and sometimes you can't - where wind - it's got to be safe. There could be a negotiation that takes place on that. If it's a blatant issue with a contractor, then there is a mechanism in the contracts to do that. It's called liquidated damages, basically.

 

The short story: Yes, there is a clause in there, and it could be negotiated, based on the circumstances that are happening.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: A follow-up to that: Has the government of Nova Scotia ever had to use that clause of liquidated damages in recent few years - let's go with two years?

 

FRED TILLEY: Yes, every year.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I probably should have added this: How many times have we had to use it in the past year?

 

FRED TILLEY: Because those things are part of contracting, we wouldn't be able to divulge that information. It's part of a particular contract, and we wouldn't have it at hand here. We can give you an idea, and we'll get back to you with an idea of how many times we may have to use it, but we wouldn't be able to give you specifics.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: I wouldn't ask for specifics with regard to contracts. I understand there is some confidential information in those. I would ask the minister if the minister wouldn't mind tabling, before the end of this sitting, how many times we had to use the liquidated damages penalty and fines within - let's go with the last year.

 

People in Digby County have been raising concerns about Highway No. 101 between Marshalltown and Weymouth for 20 years now. This section of highway goes through several residential areas and has inconsistent speed limits.

 

Residents have countless safety concerns. For example, school buses make stops along this highway, therefore putting children at severe risk. With many issues on this highway, the only thing I could find in - I believe it was the budget that I was looking at or the Capital Plan - Highway No. 101 is mentioned in the Capital Plan for Cambridge interchange and connector. I did find, on the Public Works website, that there was an announcement from the department saying there was a plan for the Highway No. 101 Digby to Marshalltown. I'm wondering if that plan is still under review or is occurring?

 

FRED TILLEY: When we talk about areas of the province, there are plans for all kinds of different areas and in this case, the member is correct that there is a plan for that area. The plan is very dated and so there is a lot of work that would need to be done to review and update that plan. In the meantime - and there has been public consultation down in that area, as well. There have been public meetings and that type of thing, but in the meantime, a safety audit has been commissioned for that area, and when that report comes in, we will certainly be able to take a look at that and see if any upgrades or changes are needed at that particular time. Safety is obviously the Number 1 priority.

 

Within the structure there are individuals within the department who are responsible for determining, for instance, whether an area needs a crosswalk, whether an area would meet the criteria for overhead lighting, whether the area would meet the criteria for a speed limit change, those types of things. Those all go through a regulated process. There are traffic studies that are done, pedestrian studies, and I have dealt with this in my own constituency, as well.

 

I was amazed at how much work actually - you know, when I first became an MLA, I will never forget it, and I hope my two buddies, Purvis and Dave, are watching tonight because they'll get a kick out of this. When I was first elected I wasn't sworn in, had nothing done, and Dave and Purvis called and said they wanted to come meet me. I met them in my garage in the backyard and they are the best advocates for their community that you would ever want to meet. They've been working on this project for nine years.

 

Purvis had the books. He showed me of all of the different members who he talked to, all of the personnel at the municipality, all of the personnel at DOT, and he had it all chronologically ordered and it was really amazing. He said to me - look, he said, Fred, all we want is a flashing beacon above this crosswalk. There's a school nearby and we want it to be visible for the kids.

 

Of course, being new and being all pumped up and I'm the new MLA for the area, I said, That's not a problem; we'll get that done. So I went about my business and every Friday Dave and Purvis came to my office for three and a half years. It wasn't as simple as I thought because sometimes when you put a crosswalk in place or you put a flashing light in place or you put some sort of traffic, you can create a safety issue more than is already there.

 

In this particular case there was a crosswalk and it was near a school, but there was a crossing guard and so that has to factor in. The speed limit changes - if there is a change in speed limit, you need to have that in place in order to get a flashing speed sign. Anyway, we ended up getting a flashing speed sign, but that was after three and a half years, but they are advocates.

 

Community members all have great intentions of what should go in different areas. That's why we do the safety audits: to tell us exactly, based on the professionals, what needs to go there. Then we can act on that.

 

[7:15 p.m.]

 

We're all quick to sometimes say we need this, and we need that, when in fact we might need this. We look forward to getting that report. We'll review it, see what comes out of it, and then make any changes that are possible.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: On the note of residents and advocacy - secondary access roads for subdivisions. One of the subdivisions in my constituency used to have a secondary access - in Kytes Hill. That secondary access was blocked off, and now there is only one access point in and out. The old plans had - the former plans from, I think, 2013 - very dated back. They had plans that another access road would continue to be there for residents. Now that's blocked.

 

During the big storm last February, the road was blocked due to a car that was stuck. No residents could get in or out. Emergency vehicles couldn't get in or out. We've seen with the fires - the wildfires - this is becoming a big issue. Just hold off for the minister telling me about - if people want secondary or access roads, then they have to go to the municipality.

 

I want to remind the minister: these are our roads, and some of these subdivisions are going on to another provincial road. It makes no logical sense for a municipality to pay for one road to be done, when it's a road that - the roads that are in the subdivision belong to the Province, and they're going on to another provincial road.

 

I'll ask: Are there plans for the Province to get access roads - a secondary road in and out of these subdivisions where people don't - can't get out. There's only one way in, one way out. As I said before, Kytes Hill being a special case where they used to have a secondary access, and we closed it - the Province closed it off to put lights in.

 

With that I ask: Is the Province going to be putting secondary access roads into the subdivisions?

 

FRED TILLEY: Obviously, whenever you're looking at egress from an area, that's a safety issue. Safety is always Number 1. The one point that I will disagree with the member on is around residential planning. Residential planning is 100 per cent a municipal issue. That being said, we certainly work with municipalities to help. For instance, the wildfires that you referenced, which happened here in HRM, kind of opened everyone's eyes to the way these subdivisions and areas need to be planned for the future. If you think about it, one way in, one way out is so common. It was a common way to build subdivisions, but now we're realizing that that's probably problematic in certain areas. When HRM wanted to build some secondary egress, we provided the land to create more emergency exits. We worked together with them. We would happily work together with CBRM on certain areas.

 

When you think of Kytes Hill, for instance, that road is an 80-kilometre zone. It's a high traffic . . . (interruption) 70 kilometres or 80 kilometres - whatever, it's still fast. If it's 70 kilometres an hour in that area, it's 80 kilometres per hour further on. What I would argue is that if it is 70 kilometres per hour, there are very few cars on that road that are going 70 kilometres an hour. Most are going faster than that. Again, when you look at a secondary exit, a lot of those that we have done have been gated. They're only for an emergency. It's locked and gated. If there's an emergency, then it's opened so you can have multiple ways out. If you think of Kytes Hill with the lights, to have another set of lights - again, going back to the traffic flow and the traffic rules and all of those types of things, that is something that - we would be happy to work with HRM on that.

 

As a province, we would work with CBRM, but we'd also work with other groups. We can work with the residents, the group of that area. We can talk. If they identify it as an issue, we can work with CBRM and the councillor for that area, Kim Sheppard. Again, the planning of the residential areas is municipal, the road is ours, so it would be a chat between the two levels.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: The only thing I think I disagree with the minister on is the fact that the Province of Nova Scotia actually closed off - they had a secondary access, and we closed it off. If we're going to put something back in - because we took their secondary access, we might want to put it back in. That's just food for thought and thinking about it.

 

I want to think about looking ahead at the potential tariffs. Is the department concerned that any of the highways or road projects will be impacted? I guess the other question is, if so, in what forms are they expecting those impacts to occur?

 

FRED TILLEY: When it comes to the threat of tariffs, we don't know what we don't know at this point. We don't know whether tariffs will be applied. We don't know what counter-tariffs could be applied. We don't know what effect that can have.

 

That being said, we're taking steps to mitigate those things, like the work the Premier did today with his interprovincial bill that's going to improve trade between provinces and alleviate some of the reliance on U.S. products. We looked at the contingency of $200 million that was built into our budget to help mitigate businesses and individuals with issues that come around from the potential threat of tariffs.

 

One thing we do recognize is that the work we do every year - and this year you can look at $0.5 billion worth of work, employing 10,000 direct and indirect people within the province - is a significant impact on our economy.

 

We're going to continue to build roads. We're going to continue to make it safe for people to travel around this province. We're going to make it easier for Nova Scotian businesses to get their products to other parts of Canada and beyond.

 

All these things will help to mitigate the potential threat of tariffs. We want to make sure we're looking after our interprovincial piece because that is where we can see some benefit.

 

Our Premier is taking the leadership. We were the first province in Canada to look at the threat of tariffs - the first province in Canada. The Premier has written to all the other premiers in Canada to say we want to reduce trade barriers with you; let's work together, and let's make Canada stronger. By doing that we make Nova Scotia stronger, and we help to mitigate any potential threat of tariffs.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: For years now - there's one answer I already know, so don't worry about that. I answered part of my question for you. We've been receiving - I'm sure the minister has, too - many road and driving concerns from our constituents. One constituent has raised - a number of them have raised a concern about the type of paint now being used by Public Works, which I know is federally mandated. I know that. I'm very much aware of it. It's fading too quickly.

 

My question to the minister is: Is the minister working with his counterparts federally to find a solution to this problem that is making our roads unsafe for drivers, as well as pedestrians, with this paint that fades too quickly? I know it's federally mandated.

 

[7:30 p.m.]

 

FRED TILLEY: The member is correct; it's a federal issue. That being said, we are a member of the TAC, which is the Transportation Association of Canada. We're also at the minister's table, where we're collaborating with the other provinces, trying to find a solution, because it's not just in Nova Scotia that we're dealing with this - it's across.

 

In Nova Scotia, as you know, our climate is not conducive to - we have to use a lot of salt, we have to use a lot of snow removal, that type of thing. It is an issue that's discussed, and we're working together. Again, it's another example of that interprovincial communication and collaboration, where we're working together to try to come up with a solution and make recommendations to the federal department.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: It's good to hear that there are conversations happening because I've had this conversation with the department before. For the minister's benefit, I understand that this paint was brought in federally mandated because it was environmentally friendly.

 

The problem is - what I think is becoming worse for our environment is how many times we have to send our line trucks out to paint, causing a lot of congestion. I think that it possibly could be more harmful to our environment, not only our trucks that we're sending out every year to paint but also the cars that are stopped for that painting to occur. That was probably more harmful to our environment potentially than the paint. I'd maybe try to raise that, as well. As I said, I understand it's a federal issue. I'm glad to know we're at the table.

 

Talking about safety, can the minister provide an update on the projected timeline for the implementation of the Traffic Safety Act? How much was allocated to this in the Capital Plan this year, and what is that allocated amount?

 

FRED TILLEY: As mentioned, the TSA is an important piece of legislation. The original Motor Vehicle Act was written in the 1920s. I remember well those days when that was written. A piece that's important, that we want to make sure you are aware of, is that as well as the Act - it's not just about that - it's also about the systems that go with it. A significant system modernization is under way with the Department of Cyber Security and Digital Services and Service Nova Scotia to help create a flexible system.

 

I'm reading this because I want to make sure I get it right. Any amendments we make to the TSA need to be reflected in our systems that monitor it, support it, and are the backbone of it.

 

Again, it's important to make the highways safe for everyone: motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians. We need to take the time to make sure we get it right. Right now, it's looking at 2026 to be in place, but that's an estimate. There are a lot of moving pieces and a lot of regulations that are being worked on by the department. I want to thank the department that's working on this because it's no easy task. Imagine working with legislation that was created in the 1920s and has been updated multiple times throughout those hundred years.

 

It can create for clunky language and things that are irrelevant or obsolete. There's a lot of time and effort, and there are probably thousands of pages they have to go through and correct, so 2026 is the current estimate.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: You answered a few questions I had in follow-up, so I thank the minister for that.

 

Part of the traffic - I set out a number of areas for municipal action. I'm wondering: Have the municipalities gained access to these areas? I know one is municipalities being able to set - want to be able to set traffic speed limits. I'm wondering: Has this work started in the responsibilities of municipalities - or providing municipalities with a bit more responsibility?

 

FRED TILLEY: Around the TSA, the initial engagement was conducted from 2020 to 2022 with 31 different groups: Cycling Nova Scotia, Insurance Bureau of Canada, the Road Safety Advisory Committee, Nova Scotia Chiefs of Police Association, Nova Scotia Federation of Municipalities, and 23 partner groups.

 

There has been so much input into the work that they're doing. This is why it takes the time, because more consultations are scheduled for 2025, so you want to make sure that we get this right because when this is implemented it's going to have a big impact on Nova Scotians.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: One of my other questions is - because I've received them, and I know the minister did because the minister sent me a letter on it in response - that is regarding the use of traffic cameras, which is currently not legal in Nova Scotia. My question is, does the minister plan to bring forward - whether it's in the Traffic Safety Act - to make the use of traffic cameras legal here in Nova Scotia?

 

FRED TILLEY: That is something that we have heard from municipalities, for sure. I wouldn't want to presuppose what will end up in the Traffic Safety Act after all of the consultations from police chiefs, from the different stakeholders and partner groups that are involved in developing or providing advice and guidance as to what will come out. We have heard that feedback from municipalities.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Switching gears a little bit to talk about extreme weather events. As the minister knows, it has been one year this month since many areas, but including our area of CBRM, faced a state of local emergency due to 200 centimetres of snow. People were trapped in their homes, on their streets. My hat's off to the Department of Public Works. They did yeoman's work. They did an amazing job with the equipment they had. What I think I have learned from this was having more localized equipment would make for smoother responses, and having equipment that might be adaptable to what we saw there, with the 200 centimetres of snow.

 

Does the department have any plans to provide more resources as climate change creates more weather conditions? Right now, my understanding is some of the equipment is zoned. Eastern Zone can share some equipment, or Western Zone can share some equipment with the whole zone. I'm wondering if the department is looking at doing something more localized, say counties. The county area could have this type of equipment at the ready where they didn't have to wait for it to come from somewhere else.

 

[7:45 p.m.]

 

FRED TILLEY: The first thing I wanted to mention is that what happened in Cape Breton was a major event. When we look at equipment - we have over 400 pieces of snow equipment in the province, and we rightsized that for - you can't allocate equipment for a once-in-a-whatever-many-year program, but that equipment is across the province, so when there's an extreme event in a certain area, that can be mobilized to that area. We did do that last year, as well. We also utilized contractors to help.

 

I want to give a huge plug to the former Minister of Public Works and the current Minister of EMO. (Applause) With the establishment of the Nova Scotia Guard, this is going to have a huge impact on issues like this - exactly what you're talking about - in localized areas. We'll have a list of localized folks who are willing to do snow removal, shovelling, carpentry, and whatever may be needed at that particular time. Those who have snowmobiles, ATVs, plows - all of these things - and they're willing to volunteer, the minister will be able to deploy those.

 

Also, with the Provincial Coordination Centre - I had an awesome opportunity to tour that facility, where all different departments come together. The army is there. The Department of Public Works is there. The minister - her complete department is there. There are weather reports. It's so - it would do your heart good to try to arrange a tour to see that facility because it's absolutely state-of-the-art. It's going to make a huge difference in our ability to respond to events.

 

I can't say enough about what this government is doing in those particular areas and creating that stand-alone department to look after Nova Scotians. We know that, over time, we're going to see more and more of these events. When we do, we'll be ready.

 

KENDRA COOMBES: Four hundred pieces of equipment is not much in the grand scheme of things. I had heard - like I said, Public Works does a great job with the equipment they have, but what we saw was a lot of our equipment was breaking down. A lot of our equipment either was older or could not handle that type of snow. As climate change persists, those 100-year storms, as people call them, are not-so-100-years. We have learned this after the October Thanksgiving floods back in 2016.

 

What I'm saying to the minister is: What is the contingency that areas are blocked off? Say some of the equipment we need is across the causeway, and something has happened to the causeway. We're not going to be getting that - potentially getting that equipment to Cape Breton. That's why I ask, so we have equipment in local areas in case of emergency. Yes, we can move them around the province, but when we know there's going to be a weather event, have some things around the areas where we know it's going to be heavily impacted, quickly. To me that's just a safety thing. It's a safety thing for operators. As I said, they were doing amazing work. I can't say enough about the Department of Public Works and the work they did.

 

A question with regard to that is private roads. During this 200 centimetres of snow we had - there were private roads that were left on their own. Now most of the equipment that a private operator has, they don't have the equipment that we do that can plow roads. These private roads were pretty much left on their own to find their own way out.

 

My question to the minister: I'm just wondering, is the minister looking at a policy change that in case of an extreme weather event, such as what we saw, that the Province of Nova Scotia would go and help plow out these private roads that are off provincial roads.

 

FRED TILLEY: I'll do my best to answer that question in the remaining minute and 50 seconds. No offence to the member, I would take the advice of the Department of Public Works professionals and this cast of amazing people up here we have in the gallery to tell us how many pieces of equipment we need in a given area, in a given storm. They've got years and years of experience. Certainly we would deploy.

 

I'm sure the taxpayers of Nova Scotia would not want us to have gear sitting on this side of the causeway, on a “what if” because each of these pieces of machinery costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. When you say 400 pieces of gear is not enough, you look at 400 pieces of gear times hundreds of thousands of dollars, that's a lot of investment in the province of Nova Scotia. It's a lot of investment in keeping our roads safe. It's a lot of investment to continue to clear that snow.

 

I'm trying to remember the second part of your question. We always work with partners to help clear an area. It was private roads. In a situation when you're in an emergency you just do what needs to be done. Through our wonderful Nova Scotia Guard and through other areas, we will have that central coordination. A lot of what we were missing in the CBRM was that central coordination. You had multiple people going to the same event to try and get things. If it's better coordinated then we're better . . .

 

THE CHAIR: Order.

 

The time allotted for consideration of Supply today has elapsed.

 

The honourable Deputy Government House Leader.

 

MELISSA SHEEHY-RICHARD: I move that the committee do now rise and report progress and beg leave to sit again on a future day.

 

THE CHAIR All those in favour? Contrary minded?

 

The motion is carried.

 

The committee will now rise and report its progress to the House. We'll take a brief recess.

 

[The committee adjourned at 7:55 p.m.]